A Close-Fitting Sloper

[posaune]

Jim, please controll your armhole shape - I think maybe it is off after your alteration.
And do first the right shoulder - yoke style is secundary.
lg
posaune

[peterle]

I had in mind what lepus shows. I shift the front yoke seams usually for 2cm to the front.

I just wanted to say that sometimes a slightly angled seamline is more flattering  than making the seamline strictly parallel to the existing one. This can be judged only by wearing the toile and marking the new seamline like majka wrote.

Your dart rotating looks allright. The pattern lines should be harmonized with a french curve, removing sudden kinks in the seams like where front and back join.

[jruley]

Jim, please controll your armhole shape - I think maybe it is off after your alteration.

This is why it is time to think about a new toile.  After all the changes have accumulated the sleeves no longer fit exactly.  The pitch marks no longer line up and I am easing things in place by feel.  The sleeve may be distorting the armhole or vice versa.  Also, because of the length that was added to the front armhole the shape of the sleeve cap curve is off.  No sense fitting the shoulders if I'm going to have to do it over.

And do first the right shoulder - yoke style is secundary.
lg
posaune

Well, I can't leave the current yoke in place because the prominence is in the wrong position.  I can't go back to the old upper back, because the dart was wrong, and I threw it away in any case.

So, it's either a new upper back with the new yoke, or a new upper back with shoulder darts. 

Since the shirt will be made with a yoke, I think it makes most sense to go that way.  I also like the idea of having an unbroken shoulder seam (no dart) for the dropped shoulder alteration.  I can keep the seam line on the shoulder for now, and worry about moving it to front for better appearance later.

So, my plan is:

- alter the upper back of the new toile to incorporate the new yoke shape (with front seam on shoulder)

- make any needed balance correction (not expected)

- make initial dropped shoulder corrections

- make new toile, incorporating all changes, with scye curves smooth and corrected sleeves

- go from there.

Comments please?

[peterle]

Don´t concentrate on the sleeves too much now. They are easier to draft when the armhole is fixed and fitting the body is possible without attached sleeves as well.

[jruley]

Here is the new back pattern with the separate yoke piece ending at the shoulder seam.  The slight tilting of the CB above the chest line is due to the small wedge inserted in the back as in post #83.



Comparing this pattern to the existing back, I found some extra width at the chest line on the toile.  I may have stretched the fabric slightly when inserting the wedge.  In view of this defect I cut new backs to go with the yoke pieces. 

Here is how the resulting body fits.  Sleeves were left off and right side seam open per peterle's instructions:

[peterle]

How does it feel to wear it now?
Seems we have everything on the right place now.
The folds in the upper back are all more or less vertical. this indicates the back is yet a bit too wide. Did you measure your  body back width? How much ease is between the armholes?

Usually the wedging (post83) is made in the middle between neckhole and chestline. So the backseam is straight from hem to this point.

In a shirt the center back has to be completely straight from hem to the yoke at least, because there is no back seam in a shirt.
Shift the lower back yoke seam line parallely towards the center back (about 1cm) till the CB is straight. Reconnect the shifted end points of the line to the lower armhole and to the CB.

This picture set doesn´t show a low right shoulder. Meanwhile I think the dropped shoulder impression is mainly caused by the shifted hip posture.
So I would adress the hip thing first.

[jruley]

How does it feel to wear it now?
Seems we have everything on the right place now.
The folds in the upper back are all more or less vertical. this indicates the back is yet a bit too wide. Did you measure your  body back width? How much ease is between the armholes?

It feels OK but of course much tighter than I am used to.  Not like the fabric is straining, but difficult to put on and take off.  About like a closely fitted vest.

Back interscye width measured as 16", so 8" for half.  The back is exactly this wide at the narrowest part of scye.  The measure could be off but I am reluctant to tighten it more, unless you think it is clearly necessary.

In a shirt the center back has to be completely straight from hem to the yoke at least, because there is no back seam in a shirt.
Shift the lower back yoke seam line parallely towards the center back (about 1cm) till the CB is straight. Reconnect the shifted end points of the line to the lower armhole and to the CB.

Shall I save this for a new toile, or does it need to be changed before working on the hip?

This picture set doesn´t show a low right shoulder. Meanwhile I think the dropped shoulder impression is mainly caused by the shifted hip posture.
So I would adress the hip thing first.

Should I just add a wedge at the side seam, or is this more complicated?

I look forward to reading more comments and ideas, but will be away from home for a few days starting tomorrow.  So the poor tired toile gets a rest. .

[peterle]

Your posture is quite asymmetrical, and the lacking symmetry begins at the yoke and reaches down to hip height.
My theory is, your shoulders are shifted parallely to the left relatively to your hips. The body center line is not strictlty vertical, it´s slanted, out of plumb.
We have to do the same to the pattern.

So changing the side seam alone will not be enough.

How much is the hip out of plumb? Let a weighted string hang vertically down from the nape of the neck. Your buttocks, the line in between to be more precise, will show you how much. No pics needed of this step;-)

I would do the following:
Take a piece of paper, double width of the back pattern plus some inches. Fold in half lengthwise. This fold will be the CB. Put the back pattern on the folded paper CB on CB and copy the pattern to the new paper with a tracing wheel. Don´t forget the chest and waistline. Correct/shift the yoke seam in the same step.

Unfold the paper. You see the hole back pattern. It´s symmetric. elongate the chestline, waistline and hemline towards the right.
Draw the new slanted center line. At the yoke it meets the foldline. At the hem it will be the measured amount towards the right from the fold line.
Now determin the new sideseam points by shifting them towards the right. They must have the same distance to the new center line as the old points had to the old center line.

Connect the new points using the old pattern as a template.

Voila´the hole back is slanted now.

Do the same with the front parts. Here the hem line of the pattern will shift to the left.

For the buttonhole/ button line you will have to make a decision:
When you sew the buttonholes along the  new slanted center line, the center front won´t be vertical but it would meet the fly line of the trousers.
When you sew the buttonholes along the old center line, the center front will be vertical but not meet the center front of the trousers.

This would be my approach; does anybody have an alternative idea to cover this posture?

[Henry Hall]

My theory is, your shoulders are shifted parallely to the left relatively to your hips. The body center line is not strictlty vertical, it´s slanted, out of plumb.

That's exactly what's going on with the suspected scoliosis. In postural scoliosis all the imbalance disappears on flexion (bending over) or when sitting - the latter when it is primarily in the hips and caused by contracting the hip (pelvic tilt) or one leg being shorter.

Don't know if Jim has had back pain, but that sideways list from the hips with one arm (in his case the right) further from the side, is also very characteristic of a lumbar disc prolapse. There's quite a bit of pain with that though.

[jruley]

Don't know if Jim has had back pain, but that sideways list from the hips with one arm (in his case the right) further from the side, is also very characteristic of a lumbar disc prolapse. There's quite a bit of pain with that though.

Nope, no history of back pain to report. 

[Henry Hall]

Shorter leg? You may not notice until it is actually measured by someone else.

[jruley]

Shorter leg? You may not notice until it is actually measured by someone else.

I suppose it's possible.

I also sprained my right ankle about 14 years ago and never completed a course of therapy for it.  I probably favor that leg as a result, and that may be showing itself in the scoliosis.

[jruley]

Here are the new back and yoke pieces resulting from the change peterle suggested in post #112.  The back centerline and side seams are skewed 1/4" to the right from the chest line to the hip line.  The upper back and yoke are unchanged, except for straightening the CB line as per post #110.

I want to be sure this is what was intended before making corresponding changes to the fronts.

[peterle]

As you can see at the different behavior of the back armholes of your toile, the upper back of your body is also skewed.
You have to picture this in the pattern.
Beginn the slanting at the yokeseam,  the whole sideseam/armhole line is to be changed. Beginning the alteration at the chestline would be too low.

I also think that 1/4 " will not be enough. in the pics it seems to need about 3/4 -1".

[Schneiderfrei]

Hi peterle, I wondered about this lateral correction earlier.  Is there a danger of constructing a slanted CF.  Might that simply draw attention to the fact.

BTW jruley, a scoliosis only refers to the actual curve in the spine, some are formed as a compensation to some other postural problem some are congenital ie completely hardwired into the body.  Such a curvature is not necessarily associated with pain at all or it may give rise to serious problems. Yours does not seem severe.