Which Drafting System Do Y'all Recommend?

[Sam Tyler]

I see a lot of older Rundschau in the Reference section. Are these good enough to start with or should I go for the newer versions? Or something else entirely?

So many shirt drafting vids on Youtube, and the guys presenting those drafts (wearing their creations) don't seem to put in much wearing ease. I can understand a closer-fitting shirt under a suit coat, but mostly I'll be wearing shirts in a blue-collar setting and need some room to move.

I've even tried reverse-engineering an old shirt that started falling apart, but then it comes to laying them out to cut and test before committing to good fabric. I thought upcycling old bedsheets from thrift stores would be a good starting point for learning, but they tend to be stretched on the bias and bag on the clothesline, so I can only imagine what would happen under an iron. With the demise of JoAnn's, Hobby Lobby is the only other place within an hour's drive of home to buy fabric, and the selection favors quilting, which I'm told won't make up like garment cloth.

My head's spinning with questions, but one thing at a time. Old Rundschau, New Rundschau, or something else?

[Gerry]

So many shirt drafting vids on Youtube, and the guys presenting those drafts (wearing their creations) don't seem to put in much wearing ease. I can understand a closer-fitting shirt under a suit coat, but mostly I'll be wearing shirts in a blue-collar setting and need some room to move.

How much ease is required will depend on your build. The following advice I gave is all rule-of-thumb, but hopefully a little more intuitive than some drafts (which can be quite cryptric):

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?msg=13643

As for test garments, any shirting-weight cloth will do (a little either side of 4 oz weight). I use light-weight (it also comes in a heavier weight) Silesia, which is used for pocketing. This stuff:

https://www.theliningcompany.co.uk/trimmings/cotton-silesia/light-weight-cotton-silesia/

It has all the properties of quality shirting, but costs half as much and is good to practice on. You can also make shirts from it, but they have a slight matt look to them and crumple easily (not as bad as linen, but similar); so not for formal wear. The problem you'll find is that most of the Silesia online will be heavier stuff. If all you're seeing is in black or white/cream, and no weight is given, assume it's heavy and therefore unsuitable.

Otherwise, find a really good online-supplier and check their end-of-line/bargain-bin section. You can get some really good cloth that way. I often buy quality shirting locally, but if online the following companies are sound (if you can't find anywhere in your own neck of the woods):

https://www.acornfabrics.com

https://www.yorkshirefabric.com/search?q=shirting

Be wary of buying 'cotton' shirting on eBay. The sellers are usually clueless or unscrupulous. Invariably what you get will be a poly-blend. You can't apply any real heat because the plastic content melts, so you'll never get a decent shirt out of it IMO. Plus it's more prone to fraying - plastic on plastic is slippery, so the threads pull apart more easily in my experience - which can be a nightmare to work with.

[Sam Tyler]

That ease post will help. So you recommend McCunn for shirt drafts? Is that to say I should avoid Rundschau altogether? BTW, if I can get this shirt to work out I may try my hand at waistcoat/vest, then maybe some cardigans. So far I can still find decent pants RTW, but at the rate torso garments are going, that may change too.

I've heard not so good things about "rented storefront" sites like ebay. Not blaming the sites, but yes, the sellers can be shady. My sewing lady friends say if a seller doesn't have their own site with sample fabrics on offer, click away.

I'm in USA. International shipping on 2 meters is about as much as the material. Looks like good stuff though. Maybe larger quantity will make shipping worth it. Still one thing at a time. I need to find a good drafting system to invest in.

[Gerry]

So you recommend McCunn for shirt drafts? Is that to say I should avoid Rundschau altogether?

Many people swear by the Rundschau method, so don't dismiss it. Just remember that no matter what system you use, some alteration will be required to get a good fit.

As far as McCunn's book goes, there's no specific shirt draft. Instead he gives guidance on how to alter the basic sloper draft (which is very fitted) to produce a shirt pattern. It makes more sense to create a shirt pattern from scratch rather than amend something; but the book was mainly aimed at women, who prefer(ed?) a more fitted-look to begin with, so an understandable approach. The amount of ease added to the shirt-draft amendment is 8 inches, which seems a little excessive; and I didn't get on with any of his sleeve drafts.

Although I can't wholeheartedly recommend McCunn's book, it's very intuitive (his method uses one's actual measurements rather than estimates) and therefore easy to understand. Which is good if you're new to all this: you'll have a good grounding/overview of drafting, though the book is by no means comprehensive and you'll have to look at other systems to build up a better picture, or better way of doing things. You'll find that, as you progress, it's not a simple question of either or. Most people end up using bits taken from different drafting methods.

[Sam Tyler]

Got it. Thanks.

The sewing ladies are notorious for mixing things, like a collar from Burda with a bodice from Simplicity and a sleeve from McCalls and stick it all on a skirt from rock of eye and somehow I manage to retrace the lines so it comes together for them and they're happy. But drafting from scratch... never done it, and I DETEST sleeve caps, since for the ladies I have to stay close to the scye and cap they give me.

[Hendrick]

A great book and a standard in education is "metric pattern cutting for menswear"
by Winifred Aldrich... This has explanations and drafts for shirts and also gives insight on pattern work in general.

Cheers, Hendrick

[jruley]

This...

Just remember that no matter what system you use, some alteration will be required to get a good fit.

...and this.

You'll find that, as you progress, it's not a simple question of either or. Most people end up using bits taken from different drafting methods.

I think one of the hardest things for a novice (especially fitting oneself) is learning to SEE.  That is, learning to recognize how a figure differs from "standard" and what to do about it.  Many of those used to oversized ready-to-wear clothing find their first made to measure garment fits so much better that they think it's perfect.  An experienced fitter is likely to have a different take.

Pick a draft that you understand and is simple to execute; make a toile and post pictures of the results.  If the fit is not ideal resist the temptation to keep searching for the "perfect" draft; there isn't one.  A number of authors have observed that "the art of cutting is in the fitting".

[Sam Tyler]

Indeed. I don't expect the draft to fit perfectly from the start. If it were that easy they could make better-fitting rtw for every combination of neck/shoulder/chest/sleeve/waist/inseam/rise/oa height. But even two ppl with the same measurements have different posture, I dare say even twins. And that makes subtle changes to fit. I used to deal with this in landscaping. Short of using a 3D scanner to measure the site and translate that data to contour lines on the plans, there was no way to draw perfectly accurate lines in ACAD. Freeform meandering edging is supposed to follow the contours of the site. Some installers could read a green like a golf pro and shift things around to look good. Others were blind bodgers.

[Sam Tyler]

I guess my question should be rephrased. Given the shortcomings of any and every drafting system, are there enough here familiar with new Rundschau that have a good enough eye to help me through whatever issues I may encounter? $100-ish per book is pricey enough that I dont want to gamble with a great doorstop.

[Greger]

This is the Draft that goes with the Parson's Tunic Construction:

http://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=1008.msg7697#msg7697

It is older than the main target era for most of this forum, but it is a very interesting historical perspective and a very convoluted form of draft.

Be warned, it is very far from the modern Rundschau shirt draft, more like a voluminous envelope, with 28 cm (10") of extra ease.

As well as the standard tunic, there is a second draft for a tunic evening shirt.

There are a few fitting answers for tall neck, short neck, stooped and erect stance missing.

This is a looser fitting shirt. It can be closer fitting.

Also a construction method which can easily be adapted for buttons to the bottom.

[Schneiderfrei]

There are a few fitting answers for tall neck, short neck, stooped and erect stance missing.

Oh Greger, do you know where those aditional instructions might be found?

[Gerry]

The sleeves of that Tunic shirt will be very much of the 'T' variety, but that in itself can have charm. This is the seller's photo of a 1950s, "French Worker's" (though possibly made in Germany) shirt that I bought last year, which is very much of that cut:



The sleeves are three-quarter length and the cuffs have no buttons - you simply tuck your thumb in to get through the opening. At some point I'll clone the thing and refine the draft to my measurements.

Thanks for posting the dress shirt draft Greger (and  Schneiderfrei for scanning it originally?). Somehow that one had escaped me, until now.

[jruley]

Given the shortcomings of any and every drafting system, are there enough here familiar with new Rundschau that have a good enough eye to help me through whatever issues I may encounter? $100-ish per book is pricey enough that I dont want to gamble with a great doorstop.

Buying the latest edition of Rundschau probably just gets you the most contemporary style.  There should be some older Rundschau drafts available for free here on the forum that would be fine for a starting point (no, I haven't looked).

FWIW here is my own struggle with shirt fitting from a "standard" draft a few years ago:
https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,238.0.html

[TTailor]

Muller et sohn often sell individual patterns and drafts from the magazine or from their full books.
I would look there and consider metric pattern cutting for menswear. Its a beginner friendly book.

[Sam Tyler]

Buying the latest edition of Rundschau probably just gets you the most contemporary style.  There should be some older Rundschau drafts available for free here on the forum that would be fine for a starting point (no, I haven't looked).

I'm really looking for a complete system, not bits and bobs. That way when I know how to adjust one garment from the system I should know more how to adjust another garment in the same system. I just want to know I'm not the only one on here using it.