Adjusting for erect posture

[Gerry]

PS The overall draft seems better.

[Robb]

Robb, have you pinned the CB seam on the outside? ... pinning on the seam is not a good idea (assuming this is what you've done).

Yeah that's what I did, I pinned the excess on the outside of the seam.

Speaking of which, it dips down at the CB, suggesting that it is being pulled down (there are possibly drag lines there?) Though that could be something to do with your pinning (if that's what you did). I did say not to hoik things up too much in an attempt to resolve any folds below the leg, as tempting as that is.

The waistband actually sits where it naturally sags to. Before sewing on the waistband I put on the toile and pinned a loose waistband around my waist and marked where it would sit and marked that off. Then sewed on the waistband at the normal top seam to compare. It more or less was the same as the front top seam but was 2 inches lower at the CB. So I pinned up.

The waistband is also higher at the front than at the back. Try to even it up when viewed in profile.

That is kind of the whole challenge I put myself in. I'm an ostomy patient so it can't really go lower in the front... I do have an idea to balance it out. I could cut the waistband at the sideseam and sew on a seat piece on the back to fill in the balance.

As mentioned, folds below the seat usually require pattern manipulation. There are a number of ways to do this. The way I learned was to create a wedge under the seat, to shorten the length of the leg at the back. With a flatter backside (you possibly fall into that category), the wedge is taken higher up IIR. I'd have to dust off a book to check the details. 

I got this adjustment, is that the one you mean?



I'll have to rip apart the toile and adjust the pattern with a shorter CB and see how that will look.

[Gerry]

Robb, have you pinned the CB seam on the outside? ... pinning on the seam is not a good idea (assuming this is what you've done).

Yeah that's what I did, I pinned the excess on the outside of the seam.

Unfortunately it's not very good for evaluation of fit. It would be best if you resew the CB and post pics before taking any further steps.

I appreciate your problems with the waistband. You could possibly take it a little higher at the back. That would probably require a little shaping of the CB seam though, right at the top of the seam. Think of it like an additional dart just below the waistband, about the same length as the actual darts.

Yes, that pattern adjustment is the one I was thinking of. My advice would be to leave that for now. Let's see where we stand with a cleaner CB seam (not pinned). 

[peterle]

It's so much better than the last version and I think you are pretty near. The side seams are nice and straight and there is enough width across the thighs.
The back is a bit messy, also distorted by the pinning.
My approach would be: remove the pinning and sorting Out the right waistline at the back. To me the pattern you posted Shows a draft for braces and the triangle 20-22-23 is a braces extension. I would skip this and stay with 22-23. Install a second back dart when the waist line is too wide. To avoid the chevron shape at CB, AIM for a right angle at waistline/seatseam Point.
When the fitting Shows sagging I would pin or baste a horizontal dart across the butt taking out 2-3cm at the seat seam, fading out at the side seams( Like the alteration scetch you posted).
This will also reveal, wether the undersides are too wide and need further alteration.

[Robb]

It's so much better than the last version and I think you are pretty near. The side seams are nice and straight and there is enough width across the thighs.
The back is a bit messy, also distorted by the pinning.
My approach would be: remove the pinning and sorting Out the right waistline at the back. To me the pattern you posted Shows a draft for braces and the triangle 20-22-23 is a braces extension. I would skip this and stay with 22-23. Install a second back dart when the waist line is too wide. To avoid the chevron shape at CB, AIM for a right angle at waistline/seatseam Point.
When the fitting Shows sagging I would pin or baste a horizontal dart across the butt taking out 2-3cm at the seat seam, fading out at the side seams( Like the alteration scetch you posted).
This will also reveal, wether the undersides are too wide and need further alteration.

I got around to redo the CB and waistband, the waistband now sits at the 22-23 line. I pinned horizontal darts taking out roughly 2 inch/5cm. There was about 1.5 inches of extra fabric at the CB so I added another dart pair, taking out the same amount as the first pair. It's a little difficult to avoid a chevron shape at the CB as the waistband wants to meet the CB at a slight angle. But now there's no ease at the fly and the sideseam dips in at the hips. And due the nature of the stout adjustment I had initially done, the waistband has a chevron shape at the front.

I don't think I can get rid of that with this stout adjustment for extra room. I could slash the pattern and angle the flyline for more room, like the reverse of that image for the back, but does that work for a pleated pattern?

[Gerry]

I pinned horizontal darts taking out roughly 2 inch/5cm.

That's a huge wedge you've pinned out, Robb. It's pulling the waist down at the back. If you reread Peterle's post, he mentioned 2-3cm (about an inch). Personally, I'd start with 5/8 - 3/4 inches, which is slightly less, and take things from there. And those measurements are the total intake of the wedge/dart, the actual pinch of cloth will be half as much.

Now that you've sewn the CB, it's probably an idea for you to post pics without any pinning, so that we can better assess the hang before any further adjustment is made. It will certainly give us a better picture of what is going on with the waistband balance.

Edit: Adjustments are made on a need-to basis, based upon an assessment of a 'normal'/standard draft. We haven't actually seen that standard draft yet, because you pinned the CB seam in your earlier photos. So really, it would help to see things without any pinning (you might not need a wedge at all).

[Robb]

I pinned horizontal darts taking out roughly 2 inch/5cm.

That's a huge wedge you've pinned out, Robb. It's pulling the waist down at the back. If you reread Peterle's post, he mentioned 2-3cm (about an inch). Personally, I'd start with 5/8 - 3/4 inches, which is slightly less, and take things from there. And those measurements are the total intake of the wedge/dart, the actual pinch of cloth will be half as much.

That's on me. I was pinning to get the construction line horizontal and the legs to hang off the seat. Without pinning most of the excess fabric is pooling on the flat of the seat.

The left pair is without pins, the right is with pins.

[Gerry]

The left pair is without pins, the right is with pins.

You can see that on the side that isn't pinned the waistband has been released and isn't being pulled down so much, which demonstrates that your wedge was excessive.

Could you please post the same, comprehensive pics but without any pins on either side (just showing a single snap with one side unpinned isn't as helpful). Edit: and probably give the seat a quick press after removing the pins, as the 'memory' of the cloth is still scrunching things up.

[Robb]

The left pair is without pins, the right is with pins.

Could you please post the same, comprehensive pics but without any pins on either side (just showing a single snap with one side unpinned isn't as helpful).

I have both left and right side unpinned in the picture. Front, left side, backside, and right side. The right side just looks a little clumped up because of the excess fabric at the seat.

Or did you mean only the pictures of the unpinned toile?

[Gerry]

I have both left and right side unpinned in the picture. Front, left side, backside, and right side. The right side just looks a little clumped up because of the excess fabric at the seat.

My mistake, Robb. I thought the RHS was still pinned because it's a little scrunched. Either way, you can see that the waistband is more relaxed and horizontal, demonstrating that your original wedge was excessive.

It's possible that you can take a small amount of that excess into the waistband, in conjunction with a smaller wedge. With the former, try to take up a little of the cloth in the middle of the panel, rather than directly at the CB or SS (though some adjustment may be required there, for the sake of an even run of the waistband), otherwise you'll pull cloth up into the backside (wedgie) and/or upset the front-back balance. And don't go mad. Just a quarter of an inch in conjunction with a 0.75 - 1 inch intake wedge is a good place to start. Don't forget that the pinch of cloth for the wedge will be half this amount. You might have to undo and re-pin your darts afterwards, BTW.

With toile waistbands, it's best to baste them like a lapped seam, so that the stitching is visible and accessible. That way the stitching can be cut locally, cloth manipulated into/out of the waistband at that point then pinned in place. I'd suggest that you pin things there. You can do just one side initially so that you have an A-B comparison. The other side can be tackled afterwards, if you have asymmetry in your stance/body.

[Gerry]

PS give the seat a press to remove some of those creases. Also, it would help to press some creases in the backs, to get the legs to hang better and look less crumpled ... which may be affecting your judgement: your pinned photos have long, vertical drags along the centre of each leg, simulating the effect of a crease, which suggests that you're compensating.

[Robb]

I have both left and right side unpinned in the picture. Front, left side, backside, and right side. The right side just looks a little clumped up because of the excess fabric at the seat.

It's possible that you can take a small amount of that excess into the waistband, in conjunction with a smaller wedge. You might have to undo and re-pin your darts afterwards. Try to take up a little of the cloth in the middle of the panel, rather than directly at the CB or SS (though some adjustment may be required there, for the sake of an even run of the waistband), otherwise you'll pull cloth up into the backside and/or upset the front-back balance. And don't go mad. Just a quarter of an inch in conjunction with a 0.75 - 1 inch intake wedge is a good place to start. Don't forget that the pinch of cloth for the wedge will be half this amount.

I had to look twice too to make sure I had used the unpinned picture!

That is sound advice. I'll let out some CB to move it into darts. There's quite a bit inlay gathering now as you can imagine!

PS give the seat a press to remove some of those creases. Also, it would help to press some creases in the backs, to get the legs to hang better and look less crumpled ... which may be affecting your judgement: your pinned photos have long, vertical drags along the centre of each leg, simulating the effect of a crease, which suggests that you're compensating.

I'll give it another good press.

[Gerry]

My approach to doing this would be to take the waistband higher at the back; which would give us a more balanced waistband (rather than angled down towards the back).

To do that effectively, i.e. to prevent the band from slinking down to where it wants to naturally sit, the cloth over the small of the back needs to be shaped accurately. Not only with those darts, but also the CB seam: which needs to thought of more as a dart in that area (as if you're pinching the top of the CB seam to get a better fit).

[Robb]

To do that effectively, i.e. to prevent the band from slinking down to where it wants to naturally sit, the cloth over the small of the back needs to be shaped accurately. Not only with those darts, but also the CB seam: which needs to thought of more as a dart in that area (as if you're pinching the top of the CB seam to get a better fit).

In a way molding the shape of the CB seam to the shape of my back?

[Gerry]

In a way molding the shape of the CB seam to the shape of my back?

Exactly. It requires a lot of patience if you're doing this yourself (much easier to fit someone else).