Charlie Watts - great Tailoring comments

[Gerry]

Actually, the once "revolutionary" streetstyle has become just as banal as the bourgeois style it has fought to do away with...

When Vivienne Westwood died I watched a documentary about her on TV that was reshown as a tribute. What struck me was just how contemporary the original Kings Road Punks now look. Westwood's once shocking ideas have been totally assimilated into mainstream fashion and nobody bats an eyelid these days. Exposed zips, T-shirts with slogans, ripped cloth... all normal.

[jruley]

Exposed zips, T-shirts with slogans, ripped cloth... all normal.

Meanwhile, someone walking around in a stroller and striped trousers is considered weird.  Or at least pretentious.

Deja vu all over again.  The French Revolution replaced silks and satins with what had been equestrian sportswear.  The cultural revolution of the late 20th century replaced the suit with what had been workwear.

When I was a boy, the ushers in our church wore boutonnières on their suit jackets.  Today I'm usher captain and wear a polo shirt with the church logo.

[Greger]

What I've been told is tailoring began with pad stitching. Sewing before then followed what people wanted. Many people copy others fitting into the crowd (like some birds). Tailoring probably started in Italy. The French influenced it. Beau Brummell pursued a different direction that the English followed and then the others. The story of clothing is change. I tend to think that men get hot and pushed the upper fronts to the sides and tailors started to make them fancy and people started calling them lapels. Styles and fashions often came from the customers with tailors contributing. Mass-production came along and they pushed style and fashion changes to give people a reason to talk and belong and pay money. If customers don't agree with the ideas the Mass-producers can "loose their shirt". Many have. Big city tailors could be specialist, and many were. Read that Henry Poole set up two other tailor shops. One for younger people- fashions. Another for the middleclass. And he inherited his dad's shop and made the front door on Saville Row. The middleclass tried to copy the wealthy, but with less money. All of this is bespoke. Bespoke quality varies according to pay. Bespoke just means the definition in the dictionary of custom, but aimed at clothes. In England they downgraded the word custom, concerning clothing, to what the US calls made to measure. "House Styles" is just a marketing scheme. Styles are always changing. Not as fast as fashions. A suit can be a fashion or style. Back in the 60s men in their 20s, 30s and even 40s would sneak into work wearing fashion suits and get caught and sent home to change into a style suit. As a boy I'd hear stories of these younger men being told they can't wear fashions to work. Fashions were a distraction. So they rushed home and change. "Bespoke" was part of the method of climbing the ladder. In the US the word was "Custom". Each country has their own name. When it comes to quality this varies hugely from tailor to tailor. Company owners vary. The tailors they hire vary. Small community tailors have to make a huge variety of clothes to stay in business. Big city tailors if good can specialize. If you were good and liked making top dollar White Tie Coats that's all some did. They had enough customers they never needed to make cheaper coats. Trousers, vest, shirts other people made. When being around this quality only the coat maker is called a tailor.
If you go back to the community tailor they made all kinds of clothes and quality. Lumberjack, barn, mill, skiing, horse riding, mountaineering, children's, farmers, etc.
Today's world how many women, home sewers, make tee shirts in 30 minutes or less?
Bespoke quality is basically fit. Some are not very good. Apprenticeship has many lessons.
Valuing clothes is learned.