Confused about adding pleats

[DrLang]

I have a pattern for pants that I am now happy enough with (ignore my older posts on this; I went back to the drawing board several times). I would now like to make a version with pleats. I am finding two methods to do this; adding width to the waist and slash/pivot. I tried to make a pair of gabardine pants with a single deep pleat using slash and pivot. And while the result needs improved, it generally worked out, but I have concerns with both of these options.

Adding width to waist: This would also add length to the side seam, impacting the balance. That might be insignificant for a single small pleat, but I am trying to add three inches of ease for the pleats here.

Slash/pivot: I noticed that this causes one side on the top to drop. About half an inch in my case. With a solid rightly woven fabric like gabardine, this is entirely unnoticeable to my eye. But if I have a vertical pattern, won't this really stick out?

I see drafts that include pleats in their formula and I wonder if I am better off just starting over with one of those.

[Gerry]

Inconsistencies can be sorted out when the pleats are sewn and the waistband is about to be sewn on. The waistline can be remeasured and redrawn using the original pattern, a curving stick or by eye. Or, if discrepancies are minor, you can simply baste the waistband on and make adjustments on the fly using your eye. Just be sure to leave inlay at the waist so that such adjustments are possible.

With such a deep pleat you may be better off pivoting in both directions (judging by your description you haven't, but apologies if you did) for better symmetry, as outlined in the following article (though no idea what that would do to patterned cloth - I'm guessing that adding width for pleats is going to be less disruptive?):

[DrLang]

Thanks. I am starting to suspect this is just something that works well for solid color cloth or cloth with vertical striped patterns, but maybe not so good for checks or plaids. As I said, it worked well enough for my test, but the fabric was very off grain at the waistband. Maybe I'll spend a weekend to try one of these dedicated drafts.

[Lekpij]

Interesting topic because I love pleated pants!

My tailoring experience is very limited, but I have thought about the same issue concerning stripes and patterns.

What I would do is make a mini version of your pattern and make different versions of pleats. Then I would trace it on writing paper (the one with the horizontal lines), fold the pleats, and just see how it affects the lines.

I have not tried this myself, but that is what I will do when I get to pants with patterns!

[Hendrick]

Inconsistencies can be sorted out when the pleats are sewn and the waistband is about to be sewn on. The waistline can be remeasured and redrawn using the original pattern, a curving stick or by eye. Or, if discrepancies are minor, you can simply baste the waistband on and make adjustments on the fly using your eye. Just be sure to leave inlay at the waist so that such adjustments are possible.

With such a deep pleat you may be better off pivoting in both directions (judging by your description you haven't, but apologies if you did) for better symmetry, as outlined in the following article (though no idea what that would do to patterned cloth - I'm guessing that adding width for pleats is going to be less disruptive?):

That is about exactly how I was taught to draft pleated trousers...

[EvanTA]

For the pleat where you shift the pattern equal amounts away from the CF line, when you're making up the pant does that mean you're trying to end up with a "kissing pleat" as in the photo linked below?

https://www.permanentstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/kissing-pleat-cerrato.jpg

[peterle]

Just spreading the paper pattern does not fix the kind of pleat.
But you have to consider the pleat style when you position your pattern onto the cloth. You have to determin wether you want an ironed in crease line and where it should be positioned.
The crease line should always run parallel to the warp thread.
You can see it quite well in this trousers:

https://mrtrousers.it/products/copy-of-dark-grey-single-reverse-pleat-extended-waistband-fresco-wool-trousers-vbc

The terminus technicus is 'inverted pleat' by the way. 'Kissing pleats' is a charming word by word translation of the italian 'piega baciata'.

[Gerry]

For the pleat where you shift the pattern equal amounts away from the CF line, when you're making up the pant does that mean you're trying to end up with a "kissing pleat" as in the photo linked below?

https://www.permanentstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/kissing-pleat-cerrato.jpg

That wasn't my interpretation of the article. D is drawn over to C for an English style pleat; and vice versa for the continental pleat (though do people do things that way for a single pleat?).

I also took it as read that this method was for plain cloth: to maintain better symmetry either side of the pleat, in terms of being slightly off grain (which is possibly going to result in better drape?).

[Hendrick]

yup, I was tought to cut the center of a boxpleat, "kissing pleat" in this case straight grain. In checks and stripes and the like, the inner fold should be cut straight grain. For a "single fold" pleat, the fold should be cut straight grain. Cutting off grain will, in time, result an slight twisting of the trouser leg or or sometimes bagging of the sideseams because of the extra bias.

Cheers, Hendrick

[EvanTA]

I think I'm getting tripped up on the specifics of the instruction for how to spread the pattern. In any approach for adjusting the pattern you want to split down the CF line and spread, then when cutting make sure you lay your pattern on the cloth so the CF line is parallel/along the warp thread. I'm taking it as a given that your CF line = crease line, so correct me if I'm wrong there.

So, why not slash/spread the pattern in the exact way you'll cut? If you plan to go English style pleat, cut along the CF line and spread the inseam-side of the pattern away, vice versa for continental style. This was my thinking that led to my assumption that with this approach of spreading equally you're expected to fold the pants that way as well to create the inverted/box/kissing pleat.

But, maybe I'm over-thinking it. I can slash/spread the pattern per the instructions in the attachment above, then when I lay the pattern on the cloth I'd line up the C line to be my crease line, i.e., make that parallel to warp thread, and when I'm making it up bring the D line over to the C line to create the pleat.

I am about to start on a single-pleat pant, so this is a handy discussion at the moment.

[Gerry]

I think I'm getting tripped up on the specifics of the instruction for how to spread the pattern. In any approach for adjusting the pattern you want to split down the CF line and spread, then when cutting make sure you lay your pattern on the cloth so the CF line is parallel/along the warp thread. I'm taking it as a given that your CF line = crease line, so correct me if I'm wrong there.

So, why not slash/spread the pattern in the exact way you'll cut? If you plan to go English style pleat, cut along the CF line and spread the inseam-side of the pattern away, vice versa for continental style. This was my thinking that led to my assumption that with this approach of spreading equally you're expected to fold the pants that way as well to create the inverted/box/kissing pleat.

But, maybe I'm over-thinking it. I can slash/spread the pattern per the instructions in the attachment above, then when I lay the pattern on the cloth I'd line up the C line to be my crease line, i.e., make that parallel to warp thread, and when I'm making it up bring the D line over to the C line to create the pleat.

I am about to start on a single-pleat pant, so this is a handy discussion at the moment.

Although the article mentions slashing/cutting along the centre line, it also mentions that the pattern may instead be pivoted; and pivoting is more normal. Why would you make a permanent adjustment to your pattern if it's not necessary? What if you later wish to use the draft for a pair of trousers without a pleat.

Pivoting in one direction would be the better way to go for patterned cloth (or following the first method outlined in the article). For an English pleat, the side that gets pulled over towards the CF is on grain and inline with the crease. IIR that's the method outlined here by the Caffeinated Tailor. Though personally, I'd do all the pivoting/marking on the cloth, rather than creating a new pattern from the old (what if you want deeper/shallower pleats for the next pair ... waste of paper):

With plain cloth, and for a deep pleat in particular, it would make more sense to pivot either side of the crease line. As mentioned, this helps to create some symmetry on both sides of the 'dividing line', with respect to the cloth being off-grain from pivoting, as well as mitigating the amount that the CF is thrown off grain if only pivoting in one direction.

I was flicking through an old edition of the T&C the other week and noticed a pair of pleated trousers where the vertical stripes were totally off. So at least one tailor in the past didn't give a damn about such things!