Shirt pattern adjustment for bodybuilder

[Mad Stitcher]

Hi all,

Trying to make a shirt pattern for my son who has grown large pectoral muscles because of doing powerlifting. I made a sample with 10cm extra space around the chest but it is still very tight especially at the front around his pegs. How do I solve this? I know I could add a couple of cm's to his total chest measurements but I wonder if that would solve the problem cause the tightness is very local. As you can see I already lowered the shoulder because there was some pulling from armpit to shoulder. I've added some pictures so you can see the problem. Hope anyone can give me a hint to create some more space at the front. Plz ask me questions if I'm not clear enough.

[Gerry]

There are vertical folds of cloth across the chest, so I'm not really seeing tightness there. Possibly what he's experiencing is tightness under the arm, which can also feel restrictive. The armscyce is perhaps too high, too narrow, or both, and is pinching? (it looks pinched in profile).

[Schneiderfrei]

The 'athletic build' it probably th hardest to fit of all.

[peterle]

I second Gerry's opinion. It is wide enough. To veryfie, measure the chest width from arm pit fold to arm pit fold going over the pecs and compare to your pattern(Center front line to scye at the narrowest level)
Open the top of the side seams and look wether the shirt relaxes. The armholes are too restricting.
But I also think there is a balance issue. The front hem tangles. Does the back cling to the body?

[Chanterelle]

In my humble and non-expert opinion. Agreed with Gerry and perterle, the arm hole looks restrictive. Whether its the source of the vertical folds is another issue. At the very least, I see his outer pec looks restricted, so extending the arm hole down and outward 3/8" into the chest seems warranted...i.e. widening the armscye in the front only.

 You might just drape fit him from here...rip the side seams and smooth the fabric outward, pinning in place to see where adjustments might be made. I suspect that when you smooth out the cloth, you'll see a couple of things: (a) there is too much cloth in front panel; (b) the armscye needs to angle more dramatically inward from the shoulder; and (b) needs to be lowered a good deal.

[Mad Stitcher]

Some additional pics to show progression from start. Btw you're all correct in your reply's.
1. Shows quite some folds from armpit to highest point of shoulderseam
2. Found part of the solution by lowering the shoulderhight 8-10mm using pins. Ps. this should already be a reason to lower the armhole.
3. Armscye is too narrow indeed but only at front (see pic 4) Next to the red dot it even folds so that needs to be cut away a bit.  Ps. When I pinch away the excess width at lowest part of the armhole I can pinch 5cm's om both sides. I don't think the total chestwidth should be much larger. Do you agree?
4. Backside looks pretty much fine. Yoke-seam could be lowered an bit.

Initially I was doubting this 'cutting away' because of fear the chestwidth would become too narrow. But in this book I found online; 'Schnittmuster für besondere Körperformen' (Sewing patterns for special body shapes) it does just that. (See pic 5) I mean crossing the vertical line of chestwidth 1,5cm to give the armhole more room at front. Also the size of the 5cm darts in backpanel could be larger than the 2.5cm's I put in the sample. Although the model for this shirt has a chestwidth of 138 and my son 'only' has 122cm
Dou you think I need to adjust front of sleevehead in any way after the cutaway action in front panel?
And would you choose for a dart at frontside of the shirt?

Btw, Here's the link to the book. It says EPUB format but there's a PDF option also. Ps. Check Chapter 20 https://zoboko.com/book/1o1yl2m3/meisterwissen-in-der-herrenschneiderei-schnittmuster-fr-besondere-krperformen

[Gerry]

Dou you think I need to adjust front of sleevehead in any way after the cutaway action?

At the very least, run a tape measure around the front scye and compare the measurement with the corresponding seam-length of the sleeve. That will tell you if you need to make an adjustment. If you've factored in extra seam length for the sleeve-head, to ease it in, then possibly not a problem; though additional ease tends to be sewn at the crown of the sleeve and not so much at the front, going under the arm.

Edit: generally, things can be a bit of a balancing act at the armscye seam. If you scoop things too much on the fronts, then tightness can occur at the sleeve. So in that scenario, yes, the front of the sleeve-head would normally need adjusting to create a little extra cloth. Though by the look of things, you have quite a lot of ease already across the chest, so I doubt any such adjustment would be necessary (unless you further decide to slim the chest a little).

Although I'm extremely lazy and have never visited a gym in my life (no joke!), I'm naturally muscular and have developed pecks, so I've had this very problem. The armscye of the draft you posted is slightly 'U' shaped. It's often better if it's more of a horseshoe shape (though don't go overboard!). That usually gives enough of a scoop at the front, under the arm, to cope with pecks.

PS You don't need extra chest width. He's swimming in it!  The tightness is being caused by pinching at the front of the arm joint, going down into the armpit.

[Gerry]

PPS As Chanterelle suggested, I would sort out the armscye by draping. Make slight cuts, no more than a quarter inch, at areas along the seam where there's tension, to liberate the cloth. If further cuts are required, just keep them to an eighth of an inch at a time. Only use the very tips of your scissors/shears. You'll have more control and won't accidentally snip further than anticipated.

[Mad Stitcher]

About the draft, this is not the Rundschau pattern drawing system that I'm familiar with. It's similar, but quite different. (eg No chestwidth measurement?) 

Back to topic; Not really familiar with the term 'draping'. Clarify please?
I do understand making little cuts in the front armscye-curve to determine the required depth.    At least I think that's what you mean 

Guess I'm off to make a second sample with some of the mentioned alterations. Lower shoulder, Wider curved and deeper armhole.

[Gerry]

Back to topic; Not really familiar with the term 'draping'. Clarify please?
I do understand making little cuts in the front armscye-curve to determine the required depth.    At least I think that's what you mean 

Yes, that's what I meant. 

Not sure what the German term is (I'm guessing you're German?), but draping is more of a couture approach to fitting. Cloth, usually calico or muslin, is 'draped' (placed and allowed to fall) on the body, then pinned into place and cut where it needs to be. This sort of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2EFBRJLoeI

[peterle]

Seeing the back pic, I think your son hast veeery pronounced shoulderbades.
The system you posted uses a body measurement ("Rh") to determin the distance between the 7th vertebra and the chest line "Back length".
It is important to take this measurement the right way: pinch the end of the tape with your pinkie at the 7th vertebra. Slide your thumb under the tape and lift it away from the body enough so you "bridge"the gap between the shoulder blades. Taking this measurement flush neglecting the protruding blades would result in a too short back length and thus too small armholes.

[Mad Stitcher]

It is important to take this measurement the right way: pinch the end of the tape with your pinkie at the 7th vertebra. Slide your thumb under the tape and lift it away from the body enough so you "bridge"the gap between the shoulder blades. Taking this measurement flush neglecting the protruding blades would result in a too short back length and thus too small armholes.

@Peterle Gotcha. I'll take this into account thanks.

@Gerry I'm Dutch not German so your presumption was close Draping is Draperen in my lingo btw.
I think it would work best for me to make the second sample in which I first address the existing flaws mentioned before. This way the shallow front curve and high armhole won't distort the view as is right now. The draping tutorial looks, well, a bit out of my comfort zone to say the least. Maybe I should watch it a few times. Muchas Gracias for now and to be continued..
 

[Gerry]

The draping tutorial looks, well, a bit out of my comfort zone to say the least. Maybe I should watch it a few times. 

A lot of the time when tailors talk of draping, they don't necessarily construct the garment from scratch as in the video. It's just a shorthand for fitting the toile on the body, cutting seams and re-pinning them as necessary to get the fit right. Mostly, I'll just draft a block (literally a rectangular shape for the torso) and then, once worn on the body, start pinning to create more shape (seams, darts etc).

Nothing that complicated or earth shattering. 

[Greger]

Since you are going to throw this first one away why not cut the sleeve hole deeper and wider? And adjust the shoulder slope? Pattern drafting sort of starts with an average person body. Depending upon the person's body changes are made on his/her pattern before cutting. Also before cutting they add extra width in case they need to widen a part, or add length. Flesh varies from person to person. The tape measure isn't necessarily going to put the lines where they seem to belong. If you pin,let's say, a ribbon around the chest and measure from the nape to the ribbon, straight down, that's appropriately armhole depth. Strap measure is from the nape to the front of armhole at the top of the tape around the chest. You can take a measure from the last point up to the top of arm where you think the sleeve seam will be. Some of this about flesh is how much and where. Since muscles expand under pressure- how much? Sleeves, too. These considerations makes tailoring and other clothes making interesting.