Baste fittings

[Gerry]

Another question to the nativ speakers: when you say easing in do you also mean the longer part is to be eased in? In German we say" to keep short" and mean the longer part is to be kept short to match the shorter part.

Yes, the longer part is eased (shortned) to match the shorter length of the other part.

[jruley]

Yes, the longer part is eased (shortned) to match the shorter length of the other part.

So:  If you are shortening the long side, but not stretching the opposite side, does that mean you need to add a little length to the draft to account for this?  Seems you would be losing some length on both the front and back.

[Gerry]

Yes, the longer part is eased (shortned) to match the shorter length of the other part.

So:  If you are shortening the long side, but not stretching the opposite side, does that mean you need to add a little length to the draft to account for this?  Seems you would be losing some length on both the front and back.

I was using the term generally, as I believe peterle was when asking about the definition. Partly the reason we call it easing, I'm guessing, is because by gathering a longer length into a shorter length, it creates ease: the wider back of a shirt into its yoke; a sleeve into the armhole etc.

With respect to the specific alteration that peterle outlined, I'll leave him to answer that!  (though it was suggested as a correction for a fitting problem, so how could you account for that and add length in advance?).

[jruley]

With respect to the specific alteration that peterle outlined, I'll leave him to answer that!  (though it was suggested as a correction for a fitting problem, so how could you account for that and add length in advance?).

Well, this offsetting of knee notches seems to go with close fitting trousers.  So when drafting a pair of those you could add a little length to the cuff.  If you don't need it, it just makes a little longer turn up or you could cut it off. 

But what do I know, I'm just an amateur trying to learn something  .

[Gerry]

With respect to the specific alteration that peterle outlined, I'll leave him to answer that!  (though it was suggested as a correction for a fitting problem, so how could you account for that and add length in advance?).

Well, this offsetting of knee notches seems to go with close fitting trousers.  So when drafting a pair of those you could add a little length to the cuff.  If you don't need it, it just makes a little longer turn up or you could cut it off. 

But what do I know, I'm just an amateur trying to learn something  .

It's more of a postural/figuration thing. If you read through all of peterle's posts in this thread, he thoroughly explains the reasoning and mechanics behind it. I wear narrow-leg trousers but have a very straight posture, so have no issues with this problem. So I'd say it's not something to be done by default when going for a narrow leg (for a better fit, simple iron work will suffice). Not unless the cutter has identified postural issues in advance, of course.

[Gerry]

Hadn't thought about reducing the stitch length down near the apex though, so I'll try that on the next one.

Forgot to mention, don't go overboard when reducing the stitch length. If you mess up the darts you'll need to be able to unpick the stitching (plus you can create puckering if the stitches are too close).

[EvanTA]

As I understand it, no need to add additional length, nor will you be left with anything excess. The front and back parts still line up at the hem and waist, you're only offsetting the knee notch then easing in excess; with back part knee notch placed intentionally above front part knee notch, the excess is on the back part below the knee, so it curves/bulges a bit to accommodate the calf, and above the knee on the front part, to accommodate the thigh. Thankfully I recently did a few shirts that had me easing in parts (sleeves to armscye, lower back part to back shoulder yoke), so I now have some practice/comfort with that.

Any reason not to ease on the legs to a waistband? Following the pattern guidance I'm left with a front part width at the waist of 22.5cm, at the back part (excluding darts) of 21.6cm, so 44.1cm total whereas my measured 1/2 waist is 43.1cm, which again according to the pattern guidance this 1cm of ease is recommended. But, they don't go into how to draft the waistband. In the past I've simply made a waistband equivalent to the waist of the front and rear parts together, but then it doesn't fit quite right - either too loose at the waist or too tight at the hips. My thought is this time make the waistband equivalent to my measured waist, and ease in the excess between the side seam and center front (NOT the back).

[Gerry]

Any reason not to ease on the legs to a waistband? Following the pattern guidance I'm left with a front part width at the waist of 22.5cm, at the back part (excluding darts) of 21.6cm, so 44.1cm total whereas my measured 1/2 waist is 43.1cm, which again according to the pattern guidance this 1cm of ease is recommended. But, they don't go into how to draft the waistband. In the past I've simply made a waistband equivalent to the waist of the front and rear parts together, but then it doesn't fit quite right - either too loose at the waist or too tight at the hips. My thought is this time make the waistband equivalent to my measured waist, and ease in the excess between the side seam and center front (NOT the back).

What you're suggesting is fine, especially with such a trivial discrepancy. In fact it's common for bespoke trouser makers to ease in a little excess cloth over the front pockets, to prevent them from splitting open.

[EvanTA]

With waistband. What do you think? Reviewing in the mirror shifting my weight around and letting the pants settle in, the waistband sat level across me. I see in the photos it shifted a bit where it points down at my stomach, but mostly it seems to sit level. Overall I'm happy, maybe I trim .5-1cm off front and back patterns around the side seam, as shown in the fourth photo in red.

[EvanTA]

Plus, I could have done a better job easing in the front. And I think I'll focus the easing right above the pocket per the advice.

[Greger]

Yes, the longer part is eased (shortned) to match the shorter length of the other part.

So:  If you are shortening the long side, but not stretching the opposite side, does that mean you need to add a little length to the draft to account for this?  Seems you would be losing some length on both the front and back.

Some tailors add length and shrink it in. Some muscles the way they are used they expand and shrink and you want the cloth there for the expansion where it expands. The thigh area.

Some people have large calfs. One method is adding width to both sides of the back, perhaps a little length. Either way adds adds a little bit of length to the seam. One method doesn't lengthen the leg.

Some tailors add length for the knee bending.

Coats have lengths added. Depends on the need. The back shoulder is wider than the front because of the curve of the back. Back armhole is little longer. Below the armhole is a little longer. Sleeve caps as much as can be shrunk in. Some guys have bigger muscles which expand under pressure. Shrunk sleeve cap means the room for expansion is there.

[Gerry]

Plus, I could have done a better job easing in the front. And I think I'll focus the easing right above the pocket per the advice.

The're starting to look nice, well done! Obviously they'd be a lot better with a properly formed center front/fly and waistband etc, but that's for the real thing and not a toile.

The darts are looking much cleaner. As you say, there's a bit of unevenness at the front. Chalk either side of it, unpick the waistband there and do whatever it takes to make things look even (baste or pin in advance of machining). You can leave that for the real thing though.

I'd possibly raise the crotch a tiny amount. It would probably give a nicer shape at the back, just below the seat. it's up to you though, as things stand they look nice.

[Gerry]

My only concern is that your fly gapes, so you might get a wee bit of tightness across the front when you sew the proper thing.

How you've done it isn't wrong (it's how I sew my flies for toiles), but it's better to do it more like a concealed zip, even if you're not using one. Sew the crotch curve up to the notch, tack back-and-forth there for strength, increase the stitch length so that it's suitable for a baste, and continue stitching up the centre fronts to close them. You then press the seam open (with calico you can use the nail of your first finger to do this), position your zip right in the middle of it, and sew through all layers. Then rip the basted, CF section down to the notch. The fly will look more concealed and you'll avoid the aforementioned (possibly problematic) gaping.





The above toile has been through the wars, so you'll have to excuse its knackered condition! I was also too lazy to change over to a zipper foot, hence the uneven stitching (not that it matters here). Hopefully you get the idea though.

[peterle]

The knee notch solution refers to this specific fitting problem. But generally it's also true that the tighter the trousers the more manipulation(ironwork) is necessary.
Jruley you can look on it this way:shifting the knee notches makes two alterations in one step. It adds length to the upper front and it adds length the lower back and shortens their counterparts. Both alterations sum up to the original (measured) side length. So there is no need for elongating one pattern part.
EvanTA:I also think that the waistline should be eased in to the waistband. It cares for a certain grip of the waistband. That's also the reason why I think you should not shave off at the top side seam.
But I think you can shave off a tiny bit on top of the seat seam. Maybe it is  just the pic, but it seems the waistline forms a slight Chevron there. Make sure the seat seam and the waistline meet in a right angle.
Another tip for the back: give the seat seam in the curve area a good stretch with the iron before sewing. This will smooth the area of the lower butt.(Background: with the stretching you create a concave form wich is needed in this body area).
Overall I think the trousers improved a lot.
It's hard to tell wether the front folds result from the zipper installation or the pattern, so you better sort that out like Gerry already wrote. Bear in mind, the pockets will add some volume in this area so don't make it too tight.

[EvanTA]

Thank you all for the tips, I'll fuss with it a bit more, my goal is to be cutting out the material on Thursday so I still have some time to fine tune. Wife is away this weekend so I'll have more time than usual to set aside and try and work on this next pair.

For a baste fitting, how far in the construction should I go you think? No pockets I imagine, but do I do a waistband and a zipper, more or less as I've done here for the toile? I'm fine with the extra work, I just worry about over-working the material, but then if I have to undo and rework stuff after I think I'm done then I'm REALLY over working the material. Not sure where people usually draw the line for a baste fitting.