selvage denim trouser fitting

[Chanterelle]

Thanks Gerry. Selvage isn't typically preshrunk, as the initial dye loss from soaking would impact the kind of 'patina' or characteristic denim fades that would come from wearing prior to the first wash. And to avoid awful crease marks, the shrinking will have to be done by laying the total three yard cut flat in warm water...can't use the machine for that without ruining the uniformity of the dye. My thought was to add ease all around, but especially vertically, to accommodate inevitable loss when washed.

That said, will be giving these a soak before the final cutting, as they are already cut and too big as is.

Suggestions on reducing ease? just tapering inseam and adjusting back crotch curve angle?

[Chanterelle]

They are one piece. So most the side seam is straight.
Shape is pressed in.

I will eventually be giving these a shot...but damn a 15.5" leg opening is SLIM

Am struck by how large the front crotch curve/fork width is though

[Chanterelle]

A jeans pattern
https://web.archive.org/web/20130413014621/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2196&st=0&p=21477&hl=+jeans%20+making&fromsearch=1&#entry21477
And a pair cut from it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130512074416/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3219

Thanks. these don't have a outseam side seam, though, which is what I'm after given the need to preserve the selvage down the outseam. would be looking for one in the image your shared previously, if you can find it. Many thanks!

[Gerry]

Thanks Gerry. Selvage isn't typically preshrunk, as the initial dye loss from soaking would impact the kind of 'patina' or characteristic denim fades that would come from wearing prior to the first wash. And to avoid awful crease marks, the shrinking will have to be done by laying the total three yard cut flat in warm water...can't use the machine for that without ruining the uniformity of the dye. My thought was to add ease all around, but especially vertically, to accommodate inevitable loss when washed.

That said, will be giving these a soak before the final cutting, as they are already cut and too big as is.

Suggestions on reducing ease? just tapering inseam and adjusting back crotch curve angle?

Please don't follow what industry does. They don't pre-shrink cloth because it costs money to do so. Sadly, the same can be said of the the bespoke world too (how many high-end shirting companies pre-shrink their cotton?).

I've soaked all manner of washable cloths and they come out looking as they went in. Only if cloth is cheap and not colourfast will there be any washing out of colour; and you're not bleaching the cloth, so you shouldn't get the unseemly streaks that you fear. Just lay everything in a bath* to keep it straight and use hot water. I have a thermostat on my boiler to regulate the temperature of the water that comes out of the tap. I set it for 60 degrees Celsius (140 F) and leave it to soak until the water is cool (or at least lukewarm). Unless the cloth contains man-made fibres, this high temperature won't damage it.

You can soak large lengths like this too. The only caveat being that where the cloth folds, it can remain dry if the cloth is densely woven. In which case, open it out and only fold it loosely (if need be). Lay the cloth as flat as possible. Even if scrunched or (loosely) folded a little, it shouldn't matter. Just press thoroughly once dry.

Once you've shrunk things, post again with pics and suggestions on fit will be forthcoming, I'm sure. It's a bit premature to do so, otherwise.

*I never use a machine, you're putting wear on the cloth plus dirt/grease from the drum (unless you wipe it after every single wash) can rub off onto the cloth.

[Gerry]

PS don't get hung up on drafts. They're not the magical solution. You've come this far and are up and running, it's just a matter of fitting from now on.

[Chanterelle]

couldn't appreciate the sage advice more! God I love this forum

[Chanterelle]

A jeans pattern
https://web.archive.org/web/20130413014621/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2196&st=0&p=21477&hl=+jeans%20+making&fromsearch=1&#entry21477
And a pair cut from it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130512074416/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3219

Your selvage denim from that thread...did you use this draft? It does not have a straight side-seam

[Gerry]

PS allow your cloth to dry naturally over a rack. Never put it in a tumble dryer.

[Greger]

Never made selvage jeans.
https://thebespoketailor.blogspot.com/ Shows a couple of trews. The pattern shown here, and there are other ones similar, could easily be used for selvage jeans, jack tars and other various similar trousers. They can be adapted for fall fronts, yoke, waistband, higher lower waist, no suspenders. they even give some clues for changing the bottoms. You could put some fancy bells on the bottom. In middle school back in the late sixties some boys ripped their 501s open from the hem to the knee and added large yellow/red triangles. When they walked it opened up and standing still the jean legs closed. This idea probably came from entertainment clothes of the 50s and 60s popular singers they saw on TV. Pay attention to the picture with inlays. If you make changes to the pattern make the changes on the cloth. Add inlay to the upper back so that you can slide it up or down to fit below the yoke. To include the selvage put the fold where you want the seam to be. To draw this pattern fold the paper lengthways and draw the top part. Cut that part and then refold it and draw the back side. This method is used on shirt backs, underwear, jack tars, jacket back yokes, etc.

[Gerry]

In middle school back in the late sixties some boys ripped their 501s open from the hem to the knee and added large yellow/red triangles. When they walked it opened up and standing still the jean legs closed. This idea probably came from entertainment clothes of the 50s and 60s popular singers they saw on TV.

Those inserts are called godets. I was a toddler at the time, so too young to remember them, but you see them all the time in photos of early Hippies/flower-power advocates. They were the cheaper option to buying a pair of (then) fashionable 'loon pants'.

I can't for the life of me find the link now, but there was a site that went into the history of 'spring bottom trousers'. I think it was the Mexican cavalry or army that first used godets in their trousers. It wasn't official, but because the lower legs collapse when not walking (as you mentioned), they could easily be tucked into their boots ... and brought out on display when on leave. It was just a fashion thing, though I doubt the hippies were aware of the connection (they'd probably have abandoned them had they known of their military roots!) 

[Schneiderfrei]

The cutter and tailor jeans draft always bothered me. I suspected it was just a trouser draft with jeans construction, though I'm sorry to say I never studied it to find out.

I will say, that the pair that appear on the second page do look great, they do also look like something that Deep Purple might have worn, more than 501s.

Any other opinions?

[Gerry]

WARNING: some of these images may burn onto your retinas.

Photographic History of Flares

[Schneiderfrei]

WARNING: some of these images may burn onto your retinas.

Bay City Rollers      

David Essex!!! 

Cat Woman!!! 

Footballers, at the cutting edge???

Provisional IRA guys look very pecculiar

[Gerry]

And the IRA guys weren't even wearing balaclavas ... I bet they were hard to find.

Twiggy looked good. Flares were OK until the '70s take on Oxford Bags. I had some. Those photos have been destroyed.

[Chanterelle]

The cutter and tailor jeans draft always bothered me. I suspected it was just a trouser draft with jeans construction, though I'm sorry to say I never studied it to find out.

I will say, that the pair that appear on the second page do look great, they do also look like something that Deep Purple might have worn, more than 501s.

Any other opinions?

I suspect the same. Since there was an image of a proper selvage denim draft posted earlier, I figured there was a draft floating around somewhere too.

Greger, I mistakenly assumed this was you!