selvage denim trouser fitting

[jruley]

In that book I linked to, I wonder if the "cutting men's clothes, by the square rule" tag means that the drafts are scaled down?? It would account for the tiny measurements ... which clearly aren't intended for a child because it's a men's cutting book (and although people were smaller two hundred years ago, they can't have been that short, surely?).

It looks like there is a "table of proportions" near the back of the book which would be used to adjust the pattern for size without changing the shape.

DeVere's 1866 system has the same idea using "graduated measures".  Basically if you want a larger size pattern, you use a larger size ruler (which DeVere, conveniently enough, sold  ) to lay it out.

Also, some of the numbers are probably "half measures" -  i.e. my 42 chest measure becomes a 21 "breast" because that is what you apply to the cloth.

[TTailor]

Looking at the photos just posted
Yes you have a prominent seat. And your pattern does not have enough width to accommodate the seat, and not enough length to go over the seat either.
Take a girth measurement from cf waistband, between your legs to the back waistband.
I'm assuming that you have verified your hip measurement.

Have you measured your finished pattern to check for enough size at the hip level?
Measure across the front horizontally at the hip level,(less the seam allowance), and on the back, from the corresponding point on the side seam measure on an angle parallel to the waistline. You need hip total plus ease of 2.5 to 3.5 cm.

You need more size, mostly in the back.
Front
You can add some width to the front of the pattern parallel to the side seam. Say 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch. Check the front fork point position on the pattern, it should increase proportionally with an increase in hip size. Not sure what your draft says.
The increase size at the waist can be adjusted in a fitting. It might be fine because the body is more convex in the front waist

Back
If you are using a straight side seam draft, you will add width parallel to the old CB run.

To to this you can cut the existing pattern vertically from the waist to the knee level, and slide the pattern over the amount you need.
This will add fabric at the waist(you take out a second dart to make the waist fit), and add thigh circumference.
The next step is to adjust the back inseam blending back to the original knee width, and check the back inseam length, to be the same as the front.
Correct the run of the crotch seam by laying the front inseam to the back matching the sewn lines.
Check the girth measurement of the pattern to your measurement.
Is there enough?
If not, then the question is do you need to add to the fork or is the length needed by slashing and spreading a wedge at the hip level, essentially angling the CB more than it is already.

[Gerry]

So here is the latest toile using the trews pattern linked earlier in the thread. I had avoided this pattern because it just looked wrong for my body. Given the largeness of my seat--from the side it protrudes quite a bit, which means I need a longer fork I think--I couldn't construct the draft so the front and back center seam ended at the same level. I think this is an improvement, but anticipate having to lengthen the back fork once again...

There's general tightness around the seat/hips and the crotch width is inadequate. You definitely need more width to the back fork and more ease across the seat. Possibly there's a little too much rise in the front, too, which is helping to create those diagonal pleats towards the crotch. I would expect some creases there, due to the legs being more closed than the cut of the trousers, but those pleats are quite heavy.

Hopefully you've left plenty of inlay for adjustments. If not, then make sure you leave inlay on all seams of your next toile.

[jruley]

The whole point of a trews draft, as I understand it, is to have a dominant stripe of the tartan run straight up and down the front crease line.  That's not what the fabric naturally wants to do, so shape has to be worked in with iron.  And you can't really do that with a cotton toile.

I know you want to end up with a straight side seam for the selvage material.  But maybe it would be better to fit a pair of conventional trousers first?

[TTailor]

Which trews pattern are you using? I went back and there are a couple of them.
Can you post a picture of the pattern you made and indicate where you had those issues? I dont quite understand this

I couldn't construct the draft so the front and back center seam ended at the same level.

[Gerry]

PS, before sewing together your toile, it's always a good idea to iron the creases in the fronts (at the very least). They help diagnose various problems with the leg/forks if they don't run nicely over the knee. Visible balance lines are always a good idea too.

[Dunc]

The whole point of a trews draft, as I understand it, is to have a dominant stripe of the tartan run straight up and down the front crease line.  That's not what the fabric naturally wants to do, so shape has to be worked in with iron.  And you can't really do that with a cotton toile.

I know you want to end up with a straight side seam for the selvage material.  But maybe it would be better to fit a pair of conventional trousers first?

Perhaps not particularly relevant to the thread, but I can't resist sharing these military cut trews without side seam...

[Greger]

It is obvious that you have somewhat of a belly. Not much but it is there. You belly is pulling the cloth for the seat towards the belly. So to say, the belly is stealing some of the seat cloth. It is probably also pulling the fork up, which makes the under seat not pleasant. Directions are always an estimate. One direction is an inch up at center front and 3/4 inch out. This will stop pulling the seat part forward and the crotch up. The exact amount varies from person to person.

About inlays. The fork can be extended out half to one inch. And run it down to at least the knees. The seat seam at the top is usually 1 1/2 inches wide and runs down to the tip of the fork about a quarter to half inch above that. another inlay that is useful is a half inch down the back part of the leg on the outseam. Some tailors add half to one inch above the waist seam. This gives tailors room to maneuver the cloth to fit. Patterns are merely an educated guess. The more you do the less guessing because you read the body and draw accordingly. Inlays are extremely import for beginners. Old very experienced tailors always add inlays. They don't mess around. Recutting is wasted time and cloth, which both equals lost money. If you make the side inlay, towards the top, wide enough, you can use it for the pocket facing.

[jruley]

Perhaps not particularly relevant to the thread, but I can't resist sharing these military cut trews without side seam...

That's actually highly relevant because it shows how much the shape depended on ironwork.  Imagine how those trews would have looked if they were made out of denim...