Müller trouser draft and toile

[Gerry]

The waistband could do with lowering a little at the side seams, especially on the LHS where it's very flat at the back before tilting down at the front.

Don't take the waistband off when making adjustments. Only unpick areas where it's a little uneven. Reposition the liberated parts of the band, pin/baste, check then re-sew.

When you're happy with the result, mark in pencil all along the base of the waistband at its seam, remove the band and transfer the results to you draft. Knock things into shape with a French curve and/or rule.

[Trouser Snake]

Thank you both for your encouragement. I will make some adjustments.

Posaune:
The front trouser width calculation for this block is, 1/4 HG - 1 cm. So you are suggesting to make it 1/4 HG and not subtract 1 cm? And release the tip of the inseam a bit. This means moving the tip out a little more (to the right of my drawing in post #56), correct?

The calculation for the back trouser is 1/4 HG + 2.5 cm. Your suggestion is to adjust it to be 1/4 HG + 0.5 cm. This means I am taking away 2 cm from the trouser backs. And make the inseam tip protrude a little less.

Hope I have this right. I will draft this onto paper and see what this looks like. I am guessing the amount I take off or add to a pattern piece must be from both edges, not just a side seam for example...

Gerry:
Appreciate the comments. I did see what the cat brought in.    When you say the front fork needs to be longer, do you men the Centre Front needs to be longer? Or is it the crotch width which needs to be wider on the fronts?

Thanks

[Gerry]

The crotch width needs to be a little wider on the fronts; and I should have used the term 'wider' rather than longer, just for clarity (my apologies).

[Gerry]

I've posted this before, but it's a nice overview of the typical problems people come up against:

[Trouser Snake]

Thanks Gerry. I have added 1 cm to the front crotch width and sewn it back up. No other adjustments done yet; just the front crotch. It feels more roomy. Perhaps I should take a little off the back crotch tip like posaune suggested?

Here is a drawing and some photos.

[posaune]

Sorry had the wrong draft: skinny fit with shortened Leibhoehe. there is 1.5m added in back.
You take the 1 cm for the front from the back. so if it is 2.5 cm you take only 1.5 in back. you look at the end of the book, look at the the man who pushes his butt into front. That is the alteration but they do 2cm that is a bit much maybe. But you need not the calves. (thats why a sideview from the whole body is better)
lg
posaune

[peterle]

This draft is better for you.
There is yet a bit length under the butt, but that is needed for sitting and climbing stairs, especially for slim trousers.
But I don't like the last alteration. It adds width at the front inseam, below the crotch line where it is not needed. It bunches and sags a bit between the legs.
I think the whiskers of the before version are caused by a tightness above the crotch line where the whiskers meet. I bet this is also the end of your front crotch seam. To verify this theory open the seam and keep just the lowest 2cm sewn. Try on and look what happens. I bet the seam will gape in this area, indicating there is a lack of width.

[Trouser Snake]

Ok, thank you for the suggestion peterle. I have just looked at the photographs and I think I prefer the before version too. I will redo the trousers, sewing just the bottom 2cm, and post the results here.

[Trouser Snake]

I unpicked the adjustment and put the trousers back to what they were prior. I sewed the seam only 2 cm up from the crotch on the centre front. Here is a photo of the fly area. The zip is not sewn to the left front yet. Let me know your thoughts.

EDIT: My Hip Girth is 100 cm. The instructions for this skinny fit block are  the Front Trouser Width is 1/4 HG - 1 cm. This equals 24 cm in my case. Would redrafting this as 25 cm (simply 1/4HG) be better in my case, or would 1/HG - 0.5 cm be enough?

[Schneiderfrei]

In case you are not aware, I will point out that there are trousers that are specifically made for standing only. Trying to sit down in them may break the trousers or one might lose them off thy butt. These are usually military and are specifically for standing guards etc. 

Also there is a continual discussion in tailoring literature about the balance btween suave looks and comfort. naturally the youthful desire supreme fittedness, whereas the venerable require total comfort. These are the dimensions of trouser thought.

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,695.msg5926.html

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,694.msg5925.html

[Gerry]

My Hip Girth is 100 cm. The instructions for this skinny fit block are  the Front Trouser Width is 1/4 HG - 1 cm. This equals 24 cm in my case. Would redrafting this as 25 cm (simply 1/4HG) be better in my case, or would 1/HG - 0.5 cm be enough?

peterle was spot on with the analysis (and yes, the adjustment looked worse). The amount they've split open at the CF is the bare minimum of extra you need across the fronts to remedy the situation.

Follow convention IMO: 1/4 seat/hip circumference. I'm guessing that the minus one cm is the reason they suggest stretch fabric. I've never seen that before in a draft. Trousers without any ease (for stretch fabrics), yes, but not negative ease on the fronts only.

[Gerry]

In case you are not aware, I will point out that there are trousers that are specifically made for standing only.Trying to sit down in them may break the trousers or one might lose them off thy butt.

When I was a teenager, a load of us mods used to get our trousers tailored by one guy in particular. The look was 'hipster', i.e. very low rise, but professional pride (and expertise) meant that there was a limit to how low this guy would go. When I complained about the height at the back once, with barely contained anger he patiently explained that my 'bare butt' would show if he went any lower; and that comparing my cut to that of my friends was futile, because my body didn't allow a lower rise (and theirs did).

He was absolutely right of course. As for sitting, my brother used to all the time,  whereas I mostly stood in the clubs. The knees of his hipsters were all stretched out and wrinkled (think elephants scrotum ... actually, don't), whereas mine were pristine. No, not meant for sitting.

My recent draft is the proto-mod style of the late 50s/early 60s. Parallel leg, 17 or 18 inch bottoms, no pleats, rise not too low. A more elegant look for a man of a certain age, I feel (even though I have the same build that I had as a young man).

[Gerry]

And in a post-Daniel-Craig's-Bond-world, we have this (FFS):

https://x.com/NoContextBrits/status/1824441294984470575/photo/1

[peterle]

Always a bit trial and error. There is no other way.
The crotch seam does not gape a lot but the whiskers are gone. Maybe you come along with just altering the center line run. The gape shows you where and how much to add.
But I don't like the crotch area yet. My theory is, those waves are caused by the position of the upper part and I think you will end with gaping pockets. You remember my sketch? Try on the trousers but leave the zip lines 2cm apart at the top when pinning the waistband. To keep the waistband the same length baste 1cm away at each side at a front dart position or at the side seam. This is a quick and dirty method to get an impression, whether this alteration works.

[Trouser Snake]

Thanks Gerry! I did get a good laugh with the link to X/Twitter. Are you trying to tell me something? I am thinking though, dressing like we did in our 20's is perhaps not a good idea in our 50's! Sounds like you took your mod thing very seriously Gerry. At our school in Southampton, you bought a parker from an army disposal and got your mum to sew a Union Jack tea towel on the back. Just add a load of badges.

I have drafted a new skinny fit pattern and cut the toile (yes, I know I shouldn't have ). In the process of sewing it together now. What I did was add a cm to the front hip, so instead of 1/4 HG - 1 cm, it is now just 1/4 HG. This ought to give me more room across the front. With the backs, I have taken a centimeter away, so instead of 1/4 HG + 2.5 cm, it is now 1/4 HG + 1.5 cm.

In the Müller book it says:

"With these tight trousers, it is essential to check the hip girths. Measure and add the hip girths of the front and back trousers (distance A and B). Subtract 1/2 hip girth from this figure to obtain the fullness.

Here: A+B = 51.5 cm
. /. 1/2 Hg = 51.0 cm
= 1/2 ease
= 0.5 cm

Since the ease is less than 1 cm, an elastic outer fabric must be used. Only from an ease of 1 cm or more can solid materials be used."

I have 1 cm on my pattern. I am going to sew this up and see how they fit.

Measuring across the waist line of the front and back I have 91.4 cm to be eased onto the 90 cm waist band. That is not much ease... 0.7 cm over each half of the trouser. I will go along with it, but I am thinking about straightening the side seam at the top of the trouser backs and easing this extra fabric on. (like the Adam of London pair I pulled apart; see post #56)

I will post photos soon.