Trouser fitting

[Pergamon]

Now I changed the back crotch curve and took in a little bit of the back side seams.
The back looks somewhat better now, but I feel the overall fit was better before. Its still a little tight in the front crotch area (diagonal fold). I tried to indicate the problems with pink lines.

[peterle]

Well, scooping out alone didn't do the trick.
The pants seem to be to wide across the bum and I think the undersides are to slanted for the relaxed fit.
Starting with the before version, I would add about1,5 cm at the seat seam and redraw the seat seam line fading in to the existing curve. Then I would reduce the dart a bit.
Then I would reduce the waist line at the side seam for these amounts( 1,5 plus less dart amount) and redraw the side seam beginning at the knee line to the new point.
Finally I would lower the waist line at the center back a bit, fading to the side seam.

[Pergamon]

Thank You very much for your hints.
I will try these alterations in the next step - I hope I got it all right

[Pergamon]

Alright,
one more iteration of this muslin - I will have to make a new one now.
I took these photos and finally cut it apart to see what the pattern looks like, you can see the result below. Not sure yet how to continue. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[Greger]

Why are your darts so long? They are also off towards the sides,  instead of for the purpose of hollows of your back.

[Gerry]

I agree with Greger. Each dart should point towards the fullest part of the seat, not to the side of it. They should also fall short of the fullest part (the seat line), otherwise you're reducing cloth, and therefore ease, across the seat. Not by much, admittedly, but why would you want to reduce any?

The ends of your darts are very close to that line and need to be shorter (as well as closer together).

[TTailor]

Looking at the front photo closely and the pattern shape:
To my eye, the front fork curve is a bit more hollowed out than I would draw and mid fly you can see the vertical line bending inwards. I think the centre front line is more of a concern than the back dart. I would redraw it allowing a bit more fabric mid fly and a gentler curve to the tip of the front inseam.

But generally, I think they are looking very good in muslin.
I would go ahead in real fabric at this point.
And yeah sure, you could shift the back dart closer to the centre back but it's a small thing.

I would also consider not pressing the  back crease above the knee on the grain line, but after construction, you can align the front crease and inseams then press the back above the knee, shrinking in and shaping the fabric under the seat.
Or you can manipulate the fabric before sewing if that works for you.

[peterle]

I think the back looks quite good now!

I also think the darts are a bit too long.
The front seems to need some minor alterations and I think like T Tailor, it's lacking width. Profile Pics would be helpful to sort this out. Is there a reason why the hip lines don't t meet in the center front?

And I think the pants are a bit too short for classical pants. Wearing shoes will make it more obvious.
What Mueller doesn' t tell in the pattern is, the hem will be slanting in the finished pants when working it out. Directions found in old Rundschau monthlies: Put one leg, seam on seam, inseam upwards on the table. Measure the inseam length from the cross point to the hem mark. Add 1 cm and measure from cross point to the back crease line. Mark with chalk. Mark also at the front crease but 1cm shorter than the initial inseam. Thus you get a slightly slanted hem line.

[Pergamon]

Thanks for all your advices!
I tried to incorporate all of them: I moved the darts towards CB and made them shorter (6cm now). I made the front crotch curve somewhat more shallow. Then I started with good fabric, see below, but I'm not quite where I want to be, actually my goal would be something like this, probably a tad longer:
https://scottfrasercollection.com/cdn/shop/products/ScottFraserCollection-Classicwideleg-Wornmaincloseup.jpg?v=1714427377&width=480

The main problem indeed seems to be the front crotch area. As visible in the front view, there are vertical creases pointing to the crotch and also the pleats dont stay closed and ,,curve" inwards - not enough width here? How should I alter the trousers to get rid of that? (I have left some allowance)
On the side seams there is to much fabric I think. It looks rather strange to me.
The back legs also show wrinkles and I feel they touch my calves even though being quite roomy.

Another thing:
I have to make the waistband uncomfortably tight (mainly tightness in the front) to keep the pants up, they have the tendency to slide down once I move a little bit. I dont know why that is. Also I feel tightness in the upper back area, toward the CB - could that have to do with the darts?

Can you guys help me with these issues?

[posaune]

Do you dress your pants with the iron before sewing them together?
Lg
Posaune

[Gerry]

Your trousers look nice. I'm sure we could nit-pick all day, but they look pretty clean. You've probably been working on them too long and are over scrutinising everything.

The nature of pleats is that they create ease across the hips and crotch. So the looseness you're describing isn't really a 'problem', but a consequence (desirable in many cases) of your pleats.

If you extend the closure of the pleats down a little, it might help keep them from opening out; and possibly would create a bit more 'grip' around the hips. Try pinning or basting them to see if it makes a difference, before hacking into things.

As for the drape at the sides, the standard way that trousers are drafted is for the side seams of the backs to be taken out at an angle. This creates an accumulation of ease more towards the side seams, which tends to catch on the hips. Nothing to worry about. It's more noticeable with narrow leg trousers, which I prefer to wear, so I use a different drafting system that distributes ease more across the seat. It's really not worth doing for your type of cut, though, it's just part-and-parcel of the look.

Otherwise, your trousers are shaping up nicely.

[Gerry]

PS, your belt or adjusters will do the job of keeping your trousers up. You shouldn't expect too much of your waistband and don't necessarily want it too snug (might account for the tightness at the back?).

[peterle]

I have some questions:
Did you use a Mueller pattern? The vintage pattern have a seam allowance added to the center front line. Probably you were Not aware of that.
Second : how did you incorporated the crease?
Regarding your reference Pic: I think these trousers do have an even wider hem width than yours.They also have two front folds and the folds open the english way- towards the center.
When you look at the checkered version you also can recognise the front crotch line is cut slightly slanted. I think your trousers need exactly this, a slanted front crotch line.(Just draw the line slanted by reducing the waist line 1,5cm at the center front. Add the missing amount at the side seam)

Waistline: the waist band just has a good grip when it rests above the hip bone. Thats why you take the side seam measurement from the top of the hip bone to the floor.(Or much deeper when making a Low waist pant)  the grip is also better when the waistline is a bit longer than the waist band and eased in.