Fitting issue on a jacket

[EnzoDuroy]

Hello everyone,

It has been a long time since I haven't been with you, I hope you've had a great summer.
I am currently working on a jacket (it's my first try with this draft), but I have some fitting issues and problems I'm unable to solve. I hope you will have more ideas than me to handle the problems.

Here are the pictures from this morning fitting :





























I put for each pictures in red the wrinkles I would like to solve. The other in blue are probably just a problem of a waist a bit too tight, according to "Classic tailoring techniques" by Cabrera, so there is no big difficulties for the blue wrinkles.

In the first place, I believed that the red wrinkles were produced by a pattern to loose above the waist according to Cabrera's book :



So I made the above waist a bit closer to the body, it solves a part of the wrinkles, but now it's truly close to my body and there is some that survived to this first hypothesis of solution, so I am a bit Baffled and I don't know how to do to solve the problem.

If you have any ideas regarding pattern adjustment or iron work to find a better fit, I would be very happy to know !

Thank you very much,

Enzo

[Steelmillal]

It looks like a woman's coat draft. It's too tight. Maybe save for a vest.

Start again with a different men's draft and a muslin. https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=118.0 Leave some breathing room(ease).

[Schneiderfrei]

Will you show the draft please? It will help with suggestions.

I agree with Steelmillal that it is too tight, especially around the waist.

Contrary to your thought that the diagonal folds mean that its too loose above the waist, that might be true if the waist was sufficient. The folds point, literally to where the tightness lies, the front waist. You cant let out the waist at the front, you will need to let out the whole side.

I would wait until you do that before you alter the scye, because it might be enough to just let out the waist at the side seam.

[DrLang]

To opportunistically tag onto this thread, a matching jacket will be my next challenge once I finish those trousers. I have been planning to just buy a pattern from the same person that made my trousers pattern. But I went through so many changes to the trousers pattern that I wonder, is really worth the money?

I know that any draft will require the same kind of effort, and I don't find draft instructions terribly difficult to follow.  I do know that they can have some issues that you fix ahead of time if you know what they are. I definitely do not know what they are. At the same time, my chest (and everything else for that matter) to gut ratio is always so far off from every commercial pattern I find and altering OTR jackets to fit even somewhat acceptable is always a losing battle. I wonder if I would have better luck going up a few sizes and altering everything else down. Or just drafting from scratch with the Rundschau system for that matter.

[EnzoDuroy]

I have made some changes according to your notes, and I am facing new problems, let me explain :

I let out around 8 cm (3.2 inch) on the waist and 9 cm (3.6 inch) on the breast, then the fit style goes from very fitted (which is my personal preference, but the most important thing is to get a well falling garment) to something much closer to usual old school large fit. But it did not solve the wrinkles, or maybe it did but created new ones that look like the previous ones.

Here are some pictures of the new situation :























And to answer the others questions you've asked, here is the pattern method and the final pattern piece I've used (and the fit on these picture is very, very close from the pattern) :














A few notes about these pattern making issues, I use the French standard about tailoring pattern making, so the book should be able to make great things. Also, my body is weird (It is not a women's pattern, but I have some sort of woman like body in some ways, particularly my back, so I probably create problems...)
And also about my patterns, the shoulders look strange especially in the back, It has been made according to Reza's theory on shoulder making (from the international school of tailoring) but I sew my shoulder not with this curves line but with a regular straight line (without excess material in the back).

So if you have ideas about how to make the fit better, I would be happy to know !

[EnzoDuroy]

To opportunistically tag onto this thread, a matching jacket will be my next challenge once I finish those trousers. I have been planning to just buy a pattern from the same person that made my trousers pattern. But I went through so many changes to the trousers pattern that I wonder, is really worth the money?

I know that any draft will require the same kind of effort, and I don't find draft instructions terribly difficult to follow.  I do know that they can have some issues that you fix ahead of time if you know what they are. I definitely do not know what they are. At the same time, my chest (and everything else for that matter) to gut ratio is always so far off from every commercial pattern I find and altering OTR jackets to fit even somewhat acceptable is always a losing battle. I wonder if I would have better luck going up a few sizes and altering everything else down. Or just drafting from scratch with the Rundschau system for that matter.

According to a good Parisian friend you knows very well the small french tailoring world, the best thing to do to be able to make a great garment is to experiment as much as possible on your side. So personally, I love to draft new jackets according to different sways. You can find some books about tailoring pattern making on internet archive if you want to make some experiments with reclaimed fabrics and fused canvassing.
I let you a few links to finds the books I find the best :

https://archive.org/details/fundamentalsofme0000kawa/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/Thornton_International_System_of_Garment_Cutting/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/patternmakingfor0000kers/mode/2up

[Schneiderfrei]

Ok, here's a problem, 'fitted' does not mean 'close fit', 'slim fit' or 'to the body'.  Fit means the proportions of the cloth match your body's proportions. 

Once you have established a 'Fit' it is then possible to adjust the amount of ease to make the garment closer fitted or loose or comfortable, however you want to say.  If you try to work out a draft without this understanding, you cannot get to the bottom of things.

ALWAYS write down your changes, all that painstaking work needs to be recorded so you don't waste your time.  You keep those tiny changes so that you can write them straight onto your next draft.  If one shoulder is higher than the other and the neck bulges out further on the same side or the left waist is bigger than the right, these things are not going to change quickly. putting on or losing weight is much more rapid and you can easily make those changes, but your fundamental shape is more or less a constant.

8 cm alteration from what you first showed us is so far out of the ball park for this draft, that the new draft will bear no connection to the old.  the adjustment should have been in the order of 0.5 to 1.5 cm at the waist and then recheck.

Have a go at that.

[TTailor]

To opportunistically tag onto this thread, a matching jacket will be my next challenge once I finish those trousers. I have been planning to just buy a pattern from the same person that made my trousers pattern. But I went through so many changes to the trousers pattern that I wonder, is really worth the money?

I know that any draft will require the same kind of effort, and I don't find draft instructions terribly difficult to follow.  I do know that they can have some issues that you fix ahead of time if you know what they are. I definitely do not know what they are. At the same time, my chest (and everything else for that matter) to gut ratio is always so far off from every commercial pattern I find and altering OTR jackets to fit even somewhat acceptable is always a losing battle. I wonder if I would have better luck going up a few sizes and altering everything else down. Or just drafting from scratch with the Rundschau system for that matter.

My opinion is that you need to identify the figure issues in advance and incorporate what the body needs into the pattern.
If a person has a large belly for instance, starting a few sizes up and trying to alter from there is going to be a problem.
I assume that you sent photos not just measurements to the person who made your pattern?
That is essential.
I don't know who you are using for the patterns but they will either have experience doing this or not. If not it's a challenge for both sides.

[TTailor]

Hello everyone,

It has been a long time since I haven't been with you, I hope you've had a great summer.
I am currently working on a jacket (it's my first try with this draft), but I have some fitting issues and problems I'm unable to solve. I hope you will have more ideas than me to handle the


I put for each pictures in red the wrinkles I would like to solve. The other in blue are probably just a problem of a waist a bit too tight, according to "Classic tailoring techniques" by Cabrera, so there is no big difficulties for the blue wrinkles.

In the first place, I believed that the red wrinkles were produced by a pattern to loose above the waist according to Cabrera's book :



So I made the above waist a bit closer to the body, it solves a part of the wrinkles, but now it's truly close to my body and there is some that survived to this first hypothesis of solution, so I am a bit Baffled and I don't know how to do to solve the problem.

If you have any ideas regarding pattern adjustment or iron work to find a better fit, I would be very happy to know !

Thank you very much,

Enzo

It is difficult to tell from the pictures, but I am going to suggest that you may need to release the vertical side back seam completely and let the front find its own level to the back.
You may see the waist marks shift in relation to one another on that seam and the balance and hopefully some of the diagonal stress lines will be released.

[DrLang]

To opportunistically tag onto this thread, a matching jacket will be my next challenge once I finish those trousers. I have been planning to just buy a pattern from the same person that made my trousers pattern. But I went through so many changes to the trousers pattern that I wonder, is really worth the money?

I know that any draft will require the same kind of effort, and I don't find draft instructions terribly difficult to follow.  I do know that they can have some issues that you fix ahead of time if you know what they are. I definitely do not know what they are. At the same time, my chest (and everything else for that matter) to gut ratio is always so far off from every commercial pattern I find and altering OTR jackets to fit even somewhat acceptable is always a losing battle. I wonder if I would have better luck going up a few sizes and altering everything else down. Or just drafting from scratch with the Rundschau system for that matter.

My opinion is that you need to identify the figure issues in advance and incorporate what the body needs into the pattern.
If a person has a large belly for instance, starting a few sizes up and trying to alter from there is going to be a problem.
I assume that you sent photos not just measurements to the person who made your pattern?
That is essential.
I don't know who you are using for the patterns but they will either have experience doing this or not. If not it's a challenge for both sides.

No one is drafting for me. It's just an off the shelf pattern. I seem to have made that work well enough for my trousers, but I have never had much trouble with making OTR trousers fit acceptably. Jackets are a completely different story. From what you say, it sounds like I should just bite the bullet and draft from scratch with, hopefully, some advice from people here. I found the English translation of the 1959 Rundschau draft from the T&C forum, with suggested corrections to the shoulder. Perhaps I will start there.

[TTailor]

I have been planning to just buy a pattern from the same person that made my trousers pattern.

I assumed it was a custom pattern.

[Greger]

A well made garment has room to move in it. It might look tight, but they are not. The cloth falls nicely around the body. How you distribute the cloth matters. Better luck next time.

[posaune]

I agree with Terry. I think the side panel looks wrong. Especially the armhole. (To get a good impression of the pattern it would help if one could see all together laid out on one Page)
Posaune

[EnzoDuroy]

Hello back everyone,

I've spent the last days sewing and unsewing my front with my back, and I think that I've finally achieved something that looks fine.
A few notes about what I've done from my first post (so the very too close fit) : I've let out the waist by 1.5cm on each side, and the chest line also by something like 1cm, I've worked a long time on the shape of the line connecting my chest and waist line on the sewing line connecting the side body and the back pieces to find something convenient. Also, I made my armholes deeper by something like 1 or 1.5 cm at the deepest point because they were truly too high regarding my anatomy (to let you with a value I was looking for since a long time, to get a very high armhole, for me, the distance between the waist line and the deepest point of the armhole is 21 cm with sewing margin and 20 cm without it, so 20cm is the final value ones everything is sewn).

I put a picture where you see well the line I was looking for and which I think I've found :

[Schneiderfrei]

That looks really good.