Altering taped seams

[EvanTA]

For some of my early practice with my new sewing machine I picked up a few Brooks Brothers shirts from goodwill that I'll practice altering. It's that traditional sort of boxy/loose fit, so I'm taking it in from the waist and past the armpit to also taper the sleeves stopping about midway up the arm. I started to pick apart the side seams but it appears they have some lining/taped seam, so even if I remove the stitches it doesn't come apart. I'm tearing the fabric around the seam before I'm actually separating the seam.

Is that common on RTW shirts, taped seams? Is that what you'd call it? Do I have any other option for altering it besides just cutting out the seam?

[Gerry]

Can you post a photo or two?

It's possible that stay-tape has been used to reinforce seams. Especially if the fabric is thin or loosely woven. Or perhaps the seams have been bound with bias tape?

Neither is that common, but photos would clear things up and prompt solutions.

[EvanTA]

It was a woven type fabric, so I was also periodically poking through it with the seam ripper. Here's pics of the original seam outside and inside, plus one of the extra material that was folded into the seam. It appeared to be fused onto one side of the fabric before the seam was folded.

[Gerry]

Because you've cut/ripped the seams out, it difficult to see what was what.

I don't see any tape (it would be unlikely for it to be the same colour as the cloth). So I'm guessing that it's either a standard, flat-felled seam or the seam has been done with a hemmer foot. In which case, the 'tape' you're encountering is just folded seam material. One stitch line is the actual seam, the other stitch line secures the folded seams to the garment, protecting them from fraying.

How are you ripping the seams? If using a seam ripper, don't blindly plough down the stitching and hope for the best. Unpick stitches individually in a small area then prise apart the seam a little to reveal stitches. Only rip those exposed stiches, then prise apart a little more. Time consuming, but you won't rip cloth.

[EvanTA]

May be hard to see not against the rest of the fabric, here's another shot


And the technique you describe is what I ultimately got into a rhythm of, although it couldn't separate this other material which seems fused on

[Gerry]

That does look like stay tape. Which is a first for me (never seen this in any shirt I've dismantled).

Could you post a photo without that enlarged circle so that I can see the tape within context of the seam? (preferably with part of the seam unpicked). I can't work out whether the tape is within the fold of what you've ripped, or a 'strap' seam, placed over the seams and stitched in place. Also, what's the general cloth like? Is it thin or loosely woven? I ask out of curiosity, more than anything.

Back to your problem. The tape's stitches look doable. Hook your seam ripper under one or two adjacent stitches to loosen the tape. Then prise it upwards. Pulling it like this will loosen the next few stitches, which you'll rip. Repeat the process.

[Gerry]

Unless the tape was the fusible type. In which case you'll have to heat it with the iron to release it (once the stitches have been removed). You'll need to protect your iron if the tape is double-sided.

Very unorthodox method of doing seams (at least here in the UK). I've stayed shoulder seams of shirts in the past, but not side seams. If it's fusible, then it would hold everything in place prior to stitching, I'm guessing. Intriguing.

Don't buy Brooks Brothers for alteration next time?? 

[Gerry]

If the tape is too difficult to remove and the shirts are really baggy, you could just mark out sew lines and take them in without touching the seams. If you do this with wrong sides together, you could form French seams; which might be the easiest, because you'd need to reduce the existing seams to a nub anyway (at this point - having tested for fit - you'd cut them out). Once 'Frenched' ( ), fell the seams flat?

Worth a try.

[Gerry]

Out of interest I googled around about Brooks Brothers' shirts. Apparently:

"The problem, as mentioned, is with the seams. They're treated and taped to resist puckering. BB's store tailors don't have the ability to redo that, so they decline to alter the shirts. If you don't mind the chance of the seams puckering like a regular-finish shirt, your tailor can alter them."

And supposedly, "85% of their shirts are non-iron and you can't alter them".

From this thread:

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/altering-brooks-brothers-non-iron-shirts.179433/

If they pre-shrunk their cloth in the first place, much of that puckering wouldn't exist and they wouldn't have to tape their seams.    Though it's possible that the cloth they use is a blend - "iron free" fabric - so doesn't require shrinking. Out of interest, does the label say 100% cotton?

By the sound of things they use fusible tape, so you might be able to heat it and remove it. I've seen a Mike Maldonado video where he demonstrates removal of fusing (think it was in relation to shirt cuffs). However, I paid to watch a couple of his video modules so it might have been there. Worth knowing about his channels anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/@Maldonado60/videos

https://www.youtube.com/@shirtologist9365/videos

If you can't remove the tape with heat, you'll have to do French seams (assuming the shirts are oversized and there's enough cloth to do this); or cut out the existing seams.

[Gerry]

Forgot to mention. In this case, the quickest way to remove the stitches from the tape (given that it's glued down) would be to break the bobbin side's stitching every 5/8ths to 3/4 of an inch. The top thread should then just pull away. If the stich density is high, then reduce the distance between the broken stitches.

[EvanTA]

Thank you for all the information. It was a fusible tape, but the amount that I needed to reduce the shirt by for my alterations meant I snipped off that portion anyway. The first shirt was a woven cotton, second was more like a poplin, but both had the fusible tape. For the first shirt I sorta butchered it with the seam rippers because I didn't really have a good technique, so in the end the process was just that I snipped off the seam, then took the opportunity to practice overcast stitching with my machine. After that just figured following exact measurements was out the window so I'd just focus on reconstructing the shirt, regardless of fit (being such a beginner I just need practice of any kind). I then did what I understand to be a flat-felled seam: wrong sides together, front and back panel lined up and front panel slid about .5cm in from the back panel, fold that extra back panel material over the front panel and sew, then fold that over again and sew that down (not through to the back panel, though, just the front panel). The result wasn't that bad in the end, if you look closely you can see some poor stitching but at a glance it's fine, and the point was the practice not the result.

Second shirt I took my time with the seams and was able to get those apart cleanly, and this time same operation but following measurements. I knew I needed to remove 4" total from the waist circumference so I pressed the seams open, measured 1" back from the edge on each side and panel, snipped that off, then did the same seam operation I described above. I'm not done with it yet but so far so good.

I followed the process of the "Sewing Guru" videos. Next up will be tapering some heavier cotton pants.

Thanks again for the advice!

[Steelmillal]

are non-iron and you can't alter them".

Another reason local tailoring talent is needed on every main/side street everywhere.

[TTailor]

I have run into a few shirts requiring alterations with glued flat felled seams. It was a surprise.  It's very frustrating and impossible to remove.

As for no iron shirts, we tried to dye one at work and it turned out a patchwork of colour variations due to a chemical that is seemed to have been sprayed with or dipped in to make it no iron.
Not something I would want to wear next to my skin. 

[Steelmillal]

Had a similar experience trying to remove fusible canvas. Ended badly. Reminded me to look for solution. No joy but something. https://www.thecreativefolk.com/remove-fabric-glue-from-clothes/

[EvanTA]

It's a funny coincidence that my first few projects have been unexpectedly difficult. The first was to shorten a bunch of neckties that were too long, but getting the lining lined up and sewn correctly onto the tie fabric, recreating the triangle and point, turning that out, etc., it was maybe not the best for a very first project. Then, deciding to alter two shirts that even the maker doesn't like to alter! Oops. I powered through on both and learned a lot, though, and maybe better that I didn't realize they would be hard.

Out of interest, does the label say 100% cotton?

Yes

Another reason local tailoring talent is needed on every main/side street everywhere.

Sadly what sort of kickstarted this endeavor was being unsatisfied with a local tailor's alterations. They'd rush through a fitting and my questions then I'd get things back way too short, or they'd misunderstand what I wanted, or I'd look at it later and just think it didn't look very strong.