Shirt fitting issues

[tmakos]

Hello!

I would like to ask for help again in solving fitting problems.
I am currently practicing on a friend's project, and I greatly appreciate all suggestions and insights since I am far from being a professional.

I am attaching several pictures and copies in which I have highlighted in red the parts that I find problematic.

Neck: Too big, it could be about 1 centimeter smaller at the back. How can I fix this?
Shoulders:

On the one hand, they are too narrow, I could shorten them by 0.5-1 centimeter on both sides.
On the other hand, I could add an extra 1-2 centimeters to the top to bring the shoulder line forward.
Asymmetrical shoulders, both sides are sloping (could this modification correct the diagonal folds under the shoulders?)
Back: I see that the back width is too wide; this could be reduced by 0.5-1 centimeter on both sides.
Chest: Where the X is placed, the client feels it's tight. How can I correct this?
Balance: This is clearly incorrect. I am attaching a picture I found in a previous question; can it be fixed this way?
Sleeves: The sleeves are a bit short; they could be about 1 centimeter longer (but if I reduce the shoulder width by this much, then 2 centimeters). There are wrinkles on the top of the sleeves, both front and back; should I reduce the curves of the sleeve caps?
What other problems do you see?

[tmakos]

[Gerry]

Because of the darkness of the cloth, it's not easy to see what's going on. Some thoughts, though.

The gapping at the back of the collar is probably due to not enough length in the back. Increase the height of the yoke a little at the CB. When cutting the collar, it also helps if you slightly curve its underside opposite to the curvature of the neck-hole, to mirror it somewhat. This springs the collar so that it hugs the neck better.

The yoke adjustment will make the shoulder more sloped, but that's a good thing in this case. By the look of things the shoulder has been cut squarer than it actually is, so it collapses, causing those folds/lines.

If you still find you have folds after adjusting the yoke, pick up the shoulders by pinching out the excess along the shoulder seams. Going by the photos, it seems worse on the back. You'll probably find that the sleeve heads look a little cleaner once you've done this (fewer folds at front and back).

Best to rip the shoulder seams and pin everything on your client, with the seams on the outside of the garment. When finished, mark the cloth along the seams (probably using chalk with this dark colour) and transfer the adjustments to your pattern.

The position of the shoulder seam is a matter of preference. It's typical to bring it a little forward with yokes, but it can be placed right on top of the shoulder line (my preference). The latter makes for a skinnier yoke, however, which you may or may not find more difficult to sew.

The back is possibly too wide across the shoulders (half back point). However, best to clean up the shoulder seams first and post new photos before messing about in that area.

Tightness in the upper chest is possibly because you've scooped the armhole too much at that level, particularly under the armpit.

In some of your photos the front looks to be the right length. The ones in profile, however, show significant difference in length between front and back. Which is it?

Again, difficult to diagnose these problems remotely, but start with the shoulders. Everything hangs from the shoulders. Get those right before making any other adjustments.

[tmakos]

Hello,

Gerry, thank you for the information. I completely forgot about this thread and didn't respond. I'm sorry.













I've made some modifications to the dress, but there are still things that need fixing.
Do you think the back width is suitable?
How about the chest width?
Any ideas on how to remove the wrinkles on the sleeves? Sleevcap is too low?
Unfortunately, I forgot my pins and couldn't bring them to the meeting, so my friend just loosely held the fabric together...

[Gerry]

Although your subject is holding the fronts closed, they don't overlap fully, so it's difficult to evaluate the chest width. The fronts really need to be pinned closed. The chest looks OK (probably more so with correct closure), but the back seems a little wide at the half-shoulder line for my liking. Pinch a small amount of cloth at the ends of the shoulders so that the armhole seam comes inwards a little, and pin; then see if your subject still has enough ease. Though make sure the front is closed (pin it) before doing this.

Most shirt sleeves have a shorter cap than, say, a coat/jacket. It effectively means that the sleeve is set-in at an angle rather than hanging vertically. This allows for more material/ease around the bicep line and therefore greater mobility. However, the moment we drop our arms to a more natural, vertical position, we're literally dragging the sleeve out of position (with a short cap, it can be set anything up to 45 degrees away from the side of the body), so 'drag lines' result at front and back. If your subject raises their arms a little, these lines will likely disappear. It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid and something we have to live with. A compromise is to make the sleeve cap higher (set the sleeve away from the body at a shallower angle). It's a trade off though: cleaner sleeve vs mobility.

The back could do with a couple of darts in my opinion. Seems a little baggy. Once past the natural waist, try running each dart as a parallel line right down to the hem. It creates a nice, vertical drop at the back rather than the tail sticking out once past the waist. This is a matter of preference, though. Either way, try pinning out some of the excess in the back in the form of darts. Don't make things skin tight though. We just want to take away a little excess to clean things up.

[tmakos]

Gerry, thank you so much for your help. I definitely wanted to include the arrow as well, but I was curious about how the dress would drape without it. I'll pin the rest and take a look.

[Gerry]

Gerry, thank you so much for your help. I definitely wanted to include the arrow as well, but I was curious about how the dress would drape without it. I'll pin the rest and take a look.

It's always best to pin darts on the subject, so you did the right thing by starting with the natural excess of the pattern. Again, don't go mad. Just make small pinches to tidy things up, and look for a nice, natural drop from the shoulders.

[Schneiderfrei]

You've got some work to do but none of it will go well until you deal with the vertical balance, and then the horzontal balance:

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=61.0

[tmakos]

You've got some work to do but none of it will go well until you deal with the vertical balance, and then the horzontal balance:

https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=61.0

Schneiderfrei, thank you for your observation as well. Based on the image I presented in my comment, I made adjustments to the vertical balance, but it seems there's still room for more. Could the shoulder slope be increased on the front panel? Would this compensate for the vertical fold running at the armhole?

[Gerry]

Could the shoulder slope be increased on the front panel? Would this compensate for the vertical fold running at the armhole?

Apologies for butting in, but if it's the one I'm thinking of (photo 2), that vertical fold all but disappears when the shirt is closed (photo 4). It's just ease across the chest and would probably look even cleaner had the front plackets aligned properly (they're still slightly open).

The shirt really needs to be pinned closed to better evaluate fit and balance IMO. It also helps to see the shirt side-on, with the arms raised slightly, to see what's happening with the side seams.

[Schneiderfrei]

Yes you did add front balance, I would suggest adding some more.  Its a bit scary at first, but the body needs what it needs. This is why its important to add lots of inlay, extra cloth, until your happy with the fit.

I dont think I could speak about the fold at the front until the front balance is optimal.

But! folds show that the cloth needs added length at either end of the length of the fold. Or less length at either side of the fold, but generally I expect taking away would be something to be careful with.

Really, the front seams should hang happily together without the buttons.

Then tackle the rest.

[Greger]

A few thoughts.
How many seams do you want piling up on top of the shoulder? Undershirt, shirt, vest, coat, overcoat, cloak?
Don't put the collar and sleeve on until the body of the garment is figured out. This is basted with cheap thread which are easy to pull out and use pins. You can pin certain parts, like across the back, the folds the folds are measurable. Inlays so you can move the seams up down  diagonal.
The back balance is to long, now. If you pin out below the yoke you can see how much to raise that back piece on the side seams and trim off the top. The bottom of the armhole gets trimmed, to. No trimming until whole fitting is finished, that's the whole shirt. The certain reasons you might want to deepen the back neck hole.
The top button to neck point that angle varies according to chest size and how thick the neck is. You might need an extra inch of cloth along the to utilize. But, maybe you need some beyond the shoulders and reshape the neck hole This shifts the forward, a smaller chest would be the other way).
Circumference. You might have the right circumference. But how is it distributed? On a large chest more is in front and less in. The reverse for a small chest. Some measure from center of chest to where the sleeve seam goes. Another method is called the blade measure. From center back to front sleeve seam. This is taken below the armhole, level, and the front is straight down from the front sleeve seam. Considerations to add is seam allowances and how much ease and how the ease is distributed, front and back.
The side seams are figure next.
Putting sleeves and/or collar can change the body fit. Again, pins are great. The balance of the sleeve can be figured out with one pin. Slide the sleeve on and slide it up, down, left, right to best location and pin at the top. Now figure out the rest of the seam. The collar, start at center back.
One time in the locker room some boys were waiting to be weighed. These naked bodies I started comparing, starting at the neck. Long short wide narrow. The shoulders wide to narrow. Shoulders thick and thin and muscle development different places. Level, slope, and uneven.  Rib cages very different. Barrel, square, oval, thick, thin. The bottom of rib cages, some go out and others go in, and some straight down. Stomachs vary as do hips and seats.
There is not a pattern system in the world that covers all these body shapes. This is why the best in the world add inlays, and do baste fittings, and don't always trim away all the inlays. Beginners certainly need the most inlays and extra fittings.