Chambray Stitch Wiggle

[Gerry]

Anyone worked with chambray before? If so, is stitch wiggle a typical problem with this fabric?

I've made a couple of test garments (shirts) in the last year from chambray. The top stitching always looks spidery and/or wobbly: ill-defined stitches, which isn't a problem with my machine normally. Starch doesn't help, nor different tension settings. I got slightly better results with a heavier weight thread and larger needle. Still ill-defined though.

Looking at ready to wear chambray shirts, their top-stitching looks perfect. Perhaps it's just the (relatively) cheap material that I used? I like the look of Chambray but don't want to buy expensive cloth if this is going to be an ongoing problem.

Anyone?

[Schneiderfrei]

I have used Chambay quite a lot. 

That's not my usual experience, and it does sound like you have the top tension too loose.

Also check the needle size and make sure the thread matches the needle hole.

[Gerry]

Thanks for your input, Schneiderfrei. Seriously, tension doesn't make any difference. I can crank it to the point where the cloth starts to curl and it's still got wiggle. I've tried different needles too. I think it's just cheap quality cloth that's the problem.

Probably best if I order a sample/small quantity of 'the good stuff' from a more reputable supplier.

[peterle]

Did you try a straight Stitch needle plate? It often makes a difference in lightwieght fabrics.

[Gerry]

Did you try a straight Stitch needle plate? It often makes a difference in lightwieght fabrics.

Good point, but my machine is an old Singer and straight stitch only. 

Now I know that wiggle isn't normally an issue with Chambray (thank you Schneiderfrei), I'm convinced that it's the cloth. Although it's a chambray-style weave, it's on the lighter side for shirting and slightly translucent when I hold it up to the light. Cheap stuff that I bought for samples and toiles. I like the look of Chambray, though, and would like to make some proper shirts from it, hence my question (I don't mind paying for more expensive cloth, but not if stitch-wiggle is an issue).

[Schneiderfrei]

post a photo, that will definitely be better.

[Gerry]

post a photo, that will definitely be better.

Topside:

https://flic.kr/p/2oMc9Qz

Underside:

https://flic.kr/p/2oM9jRy

The above is a sample patch pocket and the needle is going through a few layers, yet the stitch has a pronounced wobble (this is not how my stitches normally look). The cloth is yarn-dyed, but it's thin and looser weave than I'd expect for chambray (the cloth I've handled in stores tends to be tighter woven and heavier).

Yes, it looks as if the top thread is being pulled slightly to the underside, but increasing the tension doesn't change a thing: the stitches remain wobbly/spidery and tiny amounts of top thread appear underneath. Possibly because the cloth is too loosely woven and thin?

[Greger]

Bobbin tension is probably incorrect.  Looks to loose.

[Gerry]

Bobbin tension is probably incorrect.  Looks to loose.

Thanks for your input Greger. Increasing the bobbin tension didn't solve anything, unfortunately. I went up by increments of an eighth of a turn. After a while the screw became a lot tighter, so I didn't want to go further. That aside, it made no difference and I don't normally have this problem, so I was reluctant to increase the tension anymore (it was returned to its default position).

I spent the morning testing cloth from my scraps bag. I got wiggle from three loads of shirting, all cheap stuff with give in the weave when I moved it around between my fingers. In one case I solved the wiggle by switching to a finer, polyester thread (this cloth was a denser poplin). However, for the other two samples (which included the above chambray), the only success I had was by using a heavier, 30 wt cotton with more foot pressure. There was still a slight wiggle, but at least the stitches were better defined (less spidery).

I've ran out of the cloth now, so it's not exactly an issue; and I only use this cheap stuff for test garments and samples. I forgot that I had used some chambray previously. Although a cheap print, it has a denser weave and top stitching was no problem on the scrap I tried.

Don't be a cheapskate is the moral of this tale? 

[Gerry]

This afternoon I had another stab at this. I recalibrated the top tension discs. They seemed a little 'sticky' when pulling thread through, so I loosened them a little. That, and using max pressure on the foot, improved matters. There's still a tiny wiggle (the main issue is definitely the crappy quality of the cloth), but it's acceptable and the stitches are better defined.

So in a roundabout way you were right Greger: there wasn't enough tension on the bobbin side due to excess tension on the top. Nothing that was noticeable with decent shirting, but problematic with cheap stuff.

[Schneiderfrei]

I have just seen a useful post in the facebook - Vintage Industrial Sewing Machines https://www.facebook.com/groups/137241563337471

Hope this link takes you right there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/137241563337471/permalink/1818901821838095/

Basically Holly Moore - Admin recommends:

"Have you taken off the tension discs and Polished them with 400 Grit sandpaper? There's no reason to get new ones when you can just clean them up."

G

[Gerry]

I have just seen a useful post in the facebook - Vintage Industrial Sewing Machines https://www.facebook.com/groups/137241563337471

Hope this link takes you right there:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/137241563337471/permalink/1818901821838095/

Basically Holly Moore - Admin recommends:

"Have you taken off the tension discs and Polished them with 400 Grit sandpaper? There's no reason to get new ones when you can just clean them up."

G

Thanks Schneiderfrei. The machine is clean so I don't think dirt was the problem. The dealer who sold me this reconditions and sells old machines. He'd obviously set the top tension on the tighter side. Not enough to be problematic with most cloth, but obviously so with thin shirting.

Having said that, I'll disassemble the discs and check them over when I next clean my Singer (thanks for the link).

[Schneiderfrei]

Gerry, its not just dust and dirt, but getting a nice polish back on the discs.

[Gerry]

Gerry, its not just dust and dirt, but getting a nice polish back on the discs.

OK, will do! 

I was searching around yesterday when I read the following and had a 'duh' moment:

Remember, there really is no such thing as a "straight stitch." You are dealing with two different threads that must wrap around each other, and the result has to be a "coil" rather than a straight line. If the stitch is formed in the air, without fabric, this is quite obvious. What we depend on the fabric to do is to hide this from us. If the fabric has enough body to allow the threads to cross over each other and then return to the center point by the time they exit the needle hole, the stitch looks straight. However, there are many lighter weight fabrics where a perfect stitch will have a tiny angle to it. These are the fabrics where you can also easily see the nub of the opposite thread at each hole.

Now that my tension is sorted, the stitches are better defined. The residual 'wiggle' (slant) was due to the above issue with thin cloth. Or 'soft' in the case of my cheap chambray, I'd say: it compresses under the foot and therefore thins out.

I'm going to buy some extra-fine thread this week, just to satisfy my curiosity. It was recommended to make the 'coiling' less noticeable, resulting in a straighter looking stitch. That was certainly the case with the thin poplin I mentioned earlier. I still have scraps of thin, printed shirting that also machines with slanted stitches and I'd like to get as close to a solution as possible, just to cover all bases in the future: some quality cloth can be on the thin side too, and I don't want to limit my options if it's nice.

[Gerry]

I'm running on fumes with this cloth, but hopefully you can see from this tiny sample what a difference extra-fine, polyester thread (Gutermann) makes:

https://flic.kr/p/2oNMzdi

It would have been even better had I used a finer needle, but I was too lazy to change it.

Sorted!