Side body or one piece front, let's deep dive into the debate !

[Enzo]

Hello everyone.

I'd like to start by thanking everyone for the quality of our conversation about armhole height, I learned a lot of things I hadn't seen anywhere else!
And as it seems obvious that this place is a bit of a den for superheroes of the cut and tailoring art I had another question to ask.

I was wondering how to arbitrate between cutting a jacket front in one piece or with a side body.
I saw that there had already been discussions about the side body on the forum which traced its appearance to the 1930s and debated its function.
I have several questions to ask to enrich the debate.

- Firstly, what is the purpose of the small side, is it only to allow the front clip not to die in the cut of the pocket but to be cut initially wider at its lowest point, so I imagine to cause less disturbance and unsightly stretching to the fabric at that point?

- I read that the one-piece front cut required more iron work, I confess I didn't understand why (in general I have a hard time understanding iron work as I'm self-taught on the internet and in books, which frustrates me a bit as it seems to hold a lot of the jacket's perfection). And so I was wondering what iron work is needed in the case of a one-piece cut.

- Can you achieve the same level of close fit with both waist constructions or does the small side cut allow for more waist fit so you get something closer to the body?

- I have also read that the side body cut reduces the fullness at the hips. Is this cut not recommended for people with strong hips and glutes (which I am)?

- Finally I was wondering if there are any techniques to go from a one piece front to a side body cut, as I think I have a pretty good understanding of how to cut a jacket with a one piece front (I'm attaching the image of the draft I'm working on) but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to go from that to a cut with a small side and an initial cut in the pocket area.

- Finally, last question, when you make a jacket with a patch pocket and therefore without a cut in the fabric, should you avoid the cut with a side body or is it correct to simply make an embroidery stitch to hide the cut in the fabric?

If you have any other comments on this debate, I'd love to hear them!

Enzo

[Gerry]

I'm unable to answer all your questions, alas, but this is my understanding of the differences.

Asymmetric darts are difficult to sew, but asymmetric seams are relatively easy, so there's more scope for shaping with the inclusions of side panels (not that I'd recommend asymmetric seams). The main advantage to panels is that shaping can continue down, past the pocket opening, to create more of a 'skirt', which accentuates the hips.

Generally speaking, three-seam coats are more relaxed in fit whereas side panels provide a more sculptured look. There's no right or wrong, it's a matter of preference.

This is basic stuff, but makes the point well about what shaped, side panels do:

https://youtu.be/qEMYk_yXfnk?t=465

[Gerry]

PS, your jacket falls away to the sides quite a bit at the fronts. That will expose more of your body beneath the second button, which may or may not be problematic. Either way it can elongate the legs. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you might not want it.

Make a toile first? Or at least include plenty of inlay so that you can adjust things to your requirements.

[posaune]

Coming from woman tailoring (and by no means an expert): If you want figure hugging clothes a panel is always better - besides achieving a more slimming look. Look  at the shape of the underarm dart in your draft. It runs  slanted and so not easy to handle and iron.
lg
posaune

[Gerry]

Finally I was wondering if there are any techniques to go from a one piece front to a side body cut, as I think I have a pretty good understanding of how to cut a jacket with a one piece front (I'm attaching the image of the draft I'm working on) but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to go from that to a cut with a small side and an initial cut in the pocket area.

Every cutter will have their own system for determining seam placement. Mine is different from the following, but it's as good as any (and I'm a neophyte compared to Reza). Scroll down for the diagram:

https://www.internationalschooloftailoring.com/community/questions/what-are-the-most-important-factors-for-a-good-fit

[Gerry]

Finally, last question, when you make a jacket with a patch pocket and therefore without a cut in the fabric, should you avoid the cut with a side body or is it correct to simply make an embroidery stitch to hide the cut in the fabric?

The darts shown in your diagram are actually what you'd use for a patch pocket. With a side/belly cut, you'd continue the front dart down into the pocket (it wouldn't taper back to nothing). If you watch the following video in its entirety you'll see the difference between the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO6SsIRwt0k

[TSjursen]

With a patch pocket you simply cover the cut with a tape or anything suitable really, and perhaps line the inside of the pocket to make it neat. This is the standard solution in manufacturing. Otherwise the front dart can be extended to the hem, but that will distort the pattern (if any) below the pocket.

Finally, last question, when you make a jacket with a patch pocket and therefore without a cut in the fabric, should you avoid the cut with a side body or is it correct to simply make an embroidery stitch to hide the cut in the fabric?

The darts shown in your diagram are actually what you'd use for a patch pocket. With a side/belly cut, you'd continue the front dart down into the pocket (it wouldn't taper back to nothing). If you watch the following video in its entirety you'll see the difference between the two:

[TSjursen]

- Firstly, what is the purpose of the small side, is it only to allow the front clip not to die in the cut of the pocket but to be cut initially wider at its lowest point, so I imagine to cause less disturbance and unsightly stretching to the fabric at that point?

The sidebody has several "features" so to speak. One of these is to allow both the front dart and the underarm dart to not run out into a point, but to end in a seam/cut (the front dart) and continue to the hem (the underarm dart). The fact that the cut through the pocket allows the front dart to be "one-sided" as you say is also a useful because it removes the distortion at one end of the dart. This distortion can be a problem especially in thin fabrics as it will cause little blobs of fullness that are difficult to iron out.

- I read that the one-piece front cut required more iron work, I confess I didn't understand why (in general I have a hard time understanding iron work as I'm self-taught on the internet and in books, which frustrates me a bit as it seems to hold a lot of the jacket's perfection). And so I was wondering what iron work is needed in the case of a one-piece cut.

There can be several reasons why, but they depend on the type of cut and desired end effect. Firstly, making the front dart one-sided and continuing the underarm dart in a seam to the hem obviates the need to press away the excess fullness that would otherwise appear at the points (the pocket area). In many fabrics this is no problem at all, but modern, very fine merino yarns do not take ironwork as well as old style fabrics. You can press away the fullness one day and come back the next only to find it has all popped out again, which may present an ugly "curtain" effect even after the pocket has been sewn in. Secondly, the cut through the pocket combined with a sidebody allows you to put all of the required shaping of the chest into the front dart. The size of the dart is regulated like this:



If there is a dart under the lapel or in the gorge it can be rotated to the front dart. If the pattern requires that you work up the chest by drawing in the bridle (lapel break line) or drawing in the lower front of the armhole, these "darts" can also be transferred to the front dart. (There are subtle differences though and I encourage you to try different approaches.)

Thirdly, the sidebody allows you to introduce a small donlon wedge (a belly cut, which is very useful on almost all sizes, "belly" or not).

It is impossible to say in general what ironwork a one piece front needs. That depends entirely on the system used.

- Can you achieve the same level of close fit with both waist constructions or does the small side cut allow for more waist fit so you get something closer to the body?

The extra seam makes it easier to get a close and sculpted fit without distortions, but that is not to say it is impossible to achieve the same without it.

- I have also read that the side body cut reduces the fullness at the hips. Is this cut not recommended for people with strong hips and glutes (which I am)?

That depends entirely on how you shape the underarm/sidebody seam. Another benefit of the sidebody is that you can get an extra seam to create or remove shape at the hips. You can flare it out to create a more waisted look, or reduce it the make the coat clip tightly to the hips. The seam is also useful for figures where the seat is much smaller than the chest, as it can be difficult to remove enough at the sideseam without causing distortions elsewhere.

- Finally I was wondering if there are any techniques to go from a one piece front to a side body cut, as I think I have a pretty good understanding of how to cut a jacket with a one piece front (I'm attaching the image of the draft I'm working on) but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to go from that to a cut with a small side and an initial cut in the pocket area.

If you want to make a sidebody without changing anything, you simply draw the underarm dart to the hem and add two seams. To introduce shape in the front dart, cut through the pocket and up the middle of the dart, then open up the fronts as in the illustration above.

[Schneiderfrei]

The development of the side body/panel was to move away from the baggy look of the fifties and before. It would be a challenge to change that look without a proper panel.

[Greger]

The side body can be shaped different.
The reason why they put a chest dart is because the sewn seam keeps it shape.
The chest dart can be run to the hem for guys with large chest, such as body builders.
The back seam and side seams can be shaped.

[Hendrick]

One piece front styles always remind of early 1900s style coasts, flat chested and buttoned high. The side piece allows for a more "athletic" or dramatic silhouette viewed from the front even in case of slight corpulence...

[SO_tailor]

There actually is a post regarding this same question I asked a year ago that you may find interesting Enzo,
http://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=1143.0

[Greger]

Hendrick, "early 1900s style coasts, flat chested".
A very crooked cut should be anything but flat chested.

[Hendrick]

Maybe narrow chested would be a better way to put it... Anyway, I think the lower a coat buttons, the more it emphasizes the chest,