Technology Is Eating Fashion

[SO_tailor]

Sorry but there's a difference between "Fashion Companies" and tailor shops. Gregor said it best:

In the seventies, Tommy Nutter dragged Savile Row into the 1930s/40s. It's currently somewhere in the 1980s (judging by the shoulder pads). I don't think tailors are too preoccupied with fashion. 

You're absolutely right, I didn't notice that. My apologies! 

Oh I was talking to the OP. Sorry i should have made it more clear.

No problem, I understand what you were trying to say now. Misunderstandings on both sides!

Having said that, I was being presumptuous in thinking that everyone on this forum is only concerned with tailoring. Over the decades there have been a number of tailors who've worked hand-in-hand with fashion companies, or end up in that field because it's more lucrative; and I dare say that's the situation for some members here, in which case the original post has some relevance. So I was/am rapping myself on the knuckles a little.

Personally, I feel that a well-tailored garment is timeless. Even if it incorporates a nod to fashions of the time, it will still look great years later.

I agree Gregor. Personally I find it disappointing that some tailoring houses are now following trends. Tailoring should not be "fashion forward" but rather "style forward". There is a reason why bespoke tailoring is now getting more coverage in the media than it probably has ever before. People are sick of the garbage that's crapped out in the stores, people want quality not quantity. This is why I'm afraid of tailors being fashion forward, because IMO it'll probably ruin the associations the trade has had now (quality, history, craft, etc) and I feel those hallmarks will end up being all thrown away.
This is why I despise "tailoring" firms like Clothsurgeon (if it can even be called a firm), because IMO their practically a walking middle finger towards the well-established bespoke tailors. Honestly "streetwear" and "bespoke trailing" do not belong in the same sentence. Oh well, that's my rambling and rant.

[Greger]

Clothsurgeon isn't even bespoke. Anyone can hang up bespoke, custom tailor, etc. shingle and not be a real tailor. They are swinging on the coattails of the name.
If you know the history of tailors they made everything. Levi Strauss is the first mass production of clothes. Before then you paid a tailor to make your clothes, or you made your own. There were no brand names. Every garment was an individual. Style, fashion invented on the spot. These follow popular thoughts of the day. Mass-produced, on the other hand, use marketing methods to try to convince people to buy their products. Trying to get people excited. However, it is done, clothes are about enjoyment, which usually involves culture.
You can read history books, journals etc. Tailors made anything a customer wanted. Some tailors disliked some that customers wanted. But it put bread and butter on the table. Depending on where you live, if you are a very good tailor you can pick what you want to make. As I said before, some of the best tailors only made full dress coats. Where I grew up some tailors made everything. Wealthy teenagers got the fashions tailor made.  Business men got their suits made by the same tailors. These tailors even made unusual clothes. Mass-production can not do what a custom tailor can do. Even styles change because of the talk of the customers among themselves. A type of sleeve head gets boring and the discussion turns to other looks for sleeve heads. These discussions include shoulders, waist, hips, chest, hem lines and heights, and the list goes on. Clothes are ever changing. Some tailors don't want to budge. When they talk down styles and fashions they are talking down art. Few artist talk down art. What artist likes every art out there?  But they respect art. They put aside their likes and look at the merits of the art. How well is it done. Tailoring, being an art, is about art. Fashions are art. Styles are art. Many other kinds of garments are art. When you look through the history of clothes, thousands of years worth, so much of it is art. During the beginning of the hippies, one sang against the tailors. Musicians and tailors are both artists. One artist singing against another artist group. After that the tailors had less work. Many found other jobs. A generation of tailors is missing. Several generations of customers vanished. Uneducated about custom clothes which are only hand made by tailors. A few suits and the rest are fashions  as children grow up in their age group culture. Eventually fashions fade away. I've listened to men in their 30s and 40s being sent home to change their clothes because of fashion forward and the company had a different work ethic. These fashion suits were made by custom tailors.
Another subject about clothes is money.  Recommended to some men to buy a few cheap suits (store bought) then, start saving their money to buy one custom. Save money for a few more years and buy custom again. Continue until you have all custom made. Others, you never give them that advice. Some people can buy 20 a day- money no problem.
Grandad advised, when styles were changing, to wait until a style caught on. Sometimes a style seemed to be catching on, but, then, didn't. Styles last at least five years. Why do styles change? People get bored of them. People need to talk. When they run out of things to say, they move on. Classic style is a plain jane. If done well it is magical.  But then, shouldn't all the other garments be magical?
I used the word custom instead of bespoke throughout most of this. They are the same word. The brits have used custom for mtm, which is ridiculous. They should know their language better. Also included tailor. Mass-produced doesn't include these three words. Sure, a few Mass-production companies have have a few tailors. But those garments are entirely different. They are not what I call tailored, custom or bespoke. Individual hand made garments, two fittings included are the only custom, bespoke, tailored.

[Steelmillal]

Stylin;!


HappyNewYear everybody. Keep it between the lines and painted side up! Cheers!!

[SO_tailor]

Clothsurgeon isn't even bespoke. Anyone can hang up bespoke, custom tailor, etc. shingle and not be a real tailor. They are swinging on the coattails of the name.

Exactly Gregor, This is why I have a deep hatred towards Clothsurgeon they aren't even bespoke or "custom". They just mascaraed themselves to appear as a "tailoring" firm. The only reason they are on the Row is they are just trying so hard to make a statement. They appear immature IMO, they clearly don't know what they're doing.

TL;DR, Clothsurgeon is BS.

[Gerry]

As I'm sure many are aware, Savile Row tried to safeguard the profession back in 2008:

https://www.ft.com/content/530912f8-3c9b-11dd-b958-0000779fd2ac

Although that battle was lost, interest amongst the young in becoming a true, bespoke tailor has never been greater. Consequently here are a number of places here in the UK where a proper training/education can be had. Including on the Row itself (Maurice Sedwell Academy). Also, the number of bespoke tailors sharing their knowledge on youtube has never been greater, and the pool continues to grow. This can only be a good thing. It encourages chancers to up their game, provides a bench mark for those starting out and keeps standards high. Another result is that the general public are better informed about what they're buying into when offered a cheap, 'bespoke' suit.

It's probable that the Row will end up like Carnaby Street (a former shadow of itself, existing on its past reputation and visited mostly by tourists). But wherever the current, young generation of UK tailors end up, the old traditions will continue by the look of things. Unless all western economies tank and we start fighting over street pigeons for food.

Oh Ch*ist we're f***ed.

[Schneiderfrei]

Ha ha, maybe we are Gerry, there is a portion of the world that thinks so, but you can't worry about that.  You can be well dressed. 

Is the "Fashion" of appearing overstuffed into your jacket, as demonstrated by Daniel Craig in the Bond movies over yet?  Can I  look up again?My young things are still obsessed by brand names, sadly, and think that I am a freak. (Naturally that's true) But I am determined to make my own coverings. 

Education has alays been the problem.  Even knowing nothing at all about the industry 40 years ago I knew that most people had no idea of why tailored clothes were to be preferred.  I could tell be the absolute lack of publicaly obtainable literature on the subject that a kind of mystique had developed.  I knew that was unhealthy.  It's got to be natural, and the only way for the industry, that to gain any foothold the there must be knowledge about it.

[hutch--]

Maybe its actually changing but for years with womens fashion, you saw these anorexic cloth hangers (young females looking like they needed a good feed) with some of the most rediculous things draped over them with it being called fashion.

It has much to do with the advertising, if you have an experienced tailor in one shop making high quality garments but does not have a corporate advertising budget and in another shop you have a rag trade corporation with a large advertising budget, the latter will be seen by the most people and this shapes who gets the business and who does not.

[Greger]

Affordability is another problem. Saville Row is top price as it should be. Marketing is important. But, other tailors don't have to play by those rules. And, why would they? Lower rent cuts costs. Mill ends are cheaper. Some garments can have less stitches in them. Grandad said good cloth (doesn't mean expensive) and good fit are important. More pockets costs more. Anyway, the customer pays for what they can get. And rich people buy more clothe$. If the customer buys a suit that last 20-30 years that is cheaper than buying a bunch of cheap ones from the store that sells mass production garments. How often is a brick layer going to wear a suit? Work clothes have less details, which, cut the cost down. Tailors made work clothes in the past. They made boys' clothing. Elves didn't make them. Saville Row style clothes is just a small part of what men and boys wore. Tailors made many of the other clothes, too.
As a teenager and younger the purpose of going to a tailor is not what the tailor makes for you but, what you want made. The tailor is not supposed to be limited in what he can make.  So many people are brainwashed that they don't design their clothes. That tailors are  inept. It is the stores that are inept! Every child should know that it is the stores that are incapable. How the world has changed. At least some people are finding out that tailors are superior. And tailors, who only make for the rich should be recommending the other tailors. High end tailors used to make ski clothes. Ski clothes today are made of cloth that many tailors won't even touch. Not everyone fits into mass produced clothes. Some people don't want the stuff in the stores. Tailors are not keeping up.

[Greger]

"My young things are still obsessed by brand names"

When as a teenager brand names were important for some of the clothes. But, nothing topped the tailor. Some tailors could and would make the top fashions. The child brings in the knowledge of what the fashion is and finds out that the tailor probably knows more than him. Store bought doesn't fit. Therefore, it can't exhibit the fashion as well upon the body. Fashions are connected to the wearers personality. Store bought is sloppy here, too. A good tailor can erase so many errors.

It is sad to see so many people think tailors are nothing, except, very limited. So many beginning tailors made fashions and work clothes developing their skills before they ever touched a wealthy man's garment.

[spookietoo]

Fashion actually no longer exists. Something is either "on trend" or not. Watching "fashion houses" replicate the stretchy goo "styles" of the middle class in recent years has clearly defined that fact to me. Of course Li Edelkoort, Grande Dame of fashion, announcing fashions demise a few years back had already confirmed my growing suspicions.

I truly believe that moving forward, clothing will once again play a major role in the delineation of societal classes. Those with true wealth will have access to professional tailors and dressmakers who will have access to 3-D modeling software, reducing the need for hand drafting of patterns. Everyone else will live their lives in stretchy goo. With such a massive move to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels in most industries,  I haven't heard of anyone making any major inroads to curbing the ever growing massive mountains of stretchy goo clothing emerging from China and the like.

[Hendrick]

Right Spookietoo, and that's just the clothes. Think about the polyurethane and polyammide footwear for a second...

[Greger]

stretchy goo   -   maybe it is time to die and go to heaven.
Epitaph - died and gone to heaven. ps. Can't stand modern clothing.
Never walk through the young men's part of the store anymore. The women's would be a disaster. "Over here we have clothes for gay men. And over there are the transgender." "Well, it's for my daughter." "Perhaps blue or pink will help you decide." "Hmmm, the new Supreme Court Justice says that we don't know what a woman is." When my generation dies will anyone know what the word sense means? Sadly there are plenty even in this generation that have forgotten. Stretchy Goo will be the name of the next generation?

[Steelmillal]

Fret not, Gregor, there's hope. Why even my daughter is so 'rock star' her chemical plant steel toe safety boots are Dr. Martins that she picked out! Quality is the key. Good value for money is taught. The chowder heads without the sense of a one-eyed pipe smoking cat, with a digital device stuck to their faces, are lost causes and ain't your kids, so not your problem, right? Anyway, here's some pretty girls to look at..  the links are a lot of photo so be patient if slow data speeds.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150910131643/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=905

https://web.archive.org/web/20150910154304/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=905&page=2

[spookietoo]

Hendrick - you are so right about the shoes! I had forgotten. Foot problems and age have curbed my fascination with footwear over the last twenty years. Loved nothing better than rocking a 4" pair of stilettos back in the day and maintained a respectable 75 pairs of shoes in my personal inventory (average for a woman - men maintained approx 35 pairs - I designed closets back then!) But now, I can no longer find much choice in even my favorite comfort shoes as I must have leather. My feet have always swollen dreadfully the few times I attempted to wear plastics. My favorites, originally made in the UK, are now mostly made in China and the quality has suffered terribly.

As much beef as is consumed on this planet, it is certain there is not a leather shortage. But like everything else, if a manufacturer can save 1/50th of a penny during a manufacturing process they will do so. Consumers must always expect the worst.

[Gerry]

Fret not, Gregor, there's hope. Why even my daughter is so 'rock star' her chemical plant steel toe safety boots are Dr. Martins that she picked out! Quality is the key.

I have three pairs of Doc Martens, two of them thirty years old: a pair of Loake dress shoes with DM soles (DM made them, IIR), in immaculate condition; and a pair of boots so worn they look like they've been polished with an industrial grinder (still going strong though!). Plus they're still made in the UK (there was a very good TV documentary in recent memory that showed the making of a boot from start to finish).

I began wearing them in the early 90s on account of a knee injury (the cushioned sole absorbs a lot of the shock); and every generation of youngsters since that time (including my 21 year old nephew the other week) will always make the remark "Ooh, Doc Martens, very trendy!". They're never out of fashion and they've been kicking people's heads in since the late 60s (makes you proud to be British):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1YAx4QW1I

Not for everyone, but you don't half get your money's worth.