Continental Shirt Opinion

[pfaff260]

Here is wat i use.

It's from the late 50's, early sixties and works very good. I think this is what you where looking for.
Succes!!

[Gerry]

That's fabulous pfaff, thank you!! 

[Gerry]

I used an online text grab program, then pasted the result into Google Translate. My German was just about good enough to tidy up the result. Crucially, this is the collar draft (which can be applied to any block pattern):

The collar construction — Drawing 330

To draft the pattern for the collar, use the front piece, measure 1 cm down the centre front from H2-H3 and, touching the neckline, draw a guideline to A. The measured neckline of the back and front piece is measured from H2-A. Draw the angled line from A upwards and mark off the amounts as indicated in diagram 330. This upper angled line gives the guideline for the front collar width. For ki, measure about 2 cm upwards and finish the collar shape according to the diagram. The dotted line shows an alternative collar shape.
While the undercollar will be sewn on, the upper collar must not have a seam. Rather, one cuts this to the facing. The dash-dotted lines show how the facing is cut at the collar.

[pfaff260]

👌👏

[Gerry]

Of note (I think I've got this right):

Back modification - drawing 329
If this sports shirt is only worn open, then it is recommended to make the neckline about 3/4 cm bigger (see diagram 329). You can further enlarge the neck-hole up to 1.5 cm, but then you have to add 3/4 cm to the armhole.

Not explicitly stated in the text, but note how the CF overlap decreases as a curve as it approaches the neck.

[Gerry]

Butterick pattern 7673 came through the post this morning. Fusing was a rarity in those days, so as anticipated it has instructions for attaching sewn-in interfacing. Also, buttonhole-feet weren't common/standard in those days - quaint to see handsewn buttonhole instructions, so thought I'd include a pic:

https://flic.kr/p/2nJZw6w

https://flic.kr/p/2nJZRQs

https://flic.kr/p/2nJZRRQ

Whilst searching for this (and similar) patterns, I saw a photo of a shirt made from this particular pattern. It was somewhat on the hideous side. A bizarre arrangement of a front yoke, acting as a flap, allows the shirt to be pulled over the head. The front is effectively held up by two buttons. Unfortunate if one button came off! However, included is a separate front piece for a more standard arrangement and the above pics relate to that.

I won't be using this pattern as I don't like the collar shape. Useful for research though. Thanks to Pfaff's article, and David Page Coffin's book, I'll do a draft around my own block.

[Gerry]

This example is better made/fitted than the previous one I saw (this person clearly has better sewing skills). It looks good, but the yoke arrangement kills the roll of the collar, which is its most attractive feature IMO:

https://seamracer.wordpress.com/2016/05/27/my-hubbys-1956-odd-collar-madras-shirt/

I love the bias binding. Very couture. I don't understand why this isn't done more in menswear.

[Hendrick]

Nice blog!

[theresa in tucson]

Ditto, nice blog.  I added it to my file.

[Gerry]

This is my first draft/sample. Only the top-collar piece with the grown on facing, using thin, roughly-cut poplin, so it folds rather than rolls/springs.

https://flic.kr/p/2nL1qe9

To get this shape, the collar is literally a rectangular block. There's no taking out/extending the collar point then curving to it. Using Pfaff's article as a guide, the front is HK only. The collar point is offset too: taken back at a slight angle from the CF line, as indicated in said article by the dotted line. I simply folded then cut away cloth until it looked right, so not sure what the exact measurement was, but roughly half an inch (that's what I'll be using in the modified draft).

I now understand how this collar works. A normal collar-stand is tensioned when its straight edge is curved into the neck opening. This causes it to pop up vertically at the centre front, because the seam acts as a 'hinge'. Neither the top-collar of the Italian collar, nor its interfacing, have this hinge, because both are grown on; so when tension occurs at the CF front (which both pieces are anchored to) the opening rolls rather than the usual 'folding' (as happens with a seam/'hinge').

The more the collar-block is angled backwards, the further it is brought up to the neckline when aligning it, in turn creating more tension (due to the anchoring at the CF). This causing the neck to roll more than a less-angled collar.

To make life easy, I used a 45 degree angle. I simply slid my pattern master in place, relative to the CF line, until it touched the neck curve, creating a tangent. I then drew a straight line and constructed a block, taking in the curve of the neck once past the aforesaid tangent point.

What I didn't factor in is that the width of the overlap affects the look of the roll at the CF. I used 5/8" overlap. 3/4" is going to make a slight, but significant, difference to the look of the roll, I think. I might also curve into the collar rather than leaving it angular at the CF point.

A good start but more work to do.

[Gerry]

Just had another quick stab at this. Hopefully all the changes I mentioned above are apparent in the following snap. Note the pattern-master, angled at 45 degrees, showing how this was constructed:

https://flic.kr/p/2nKWDzJ

And this is what the amended draft looks like:

https://flic.kr/p/2nL2wBV

Had to slightly trim the overlap going into the collar to make it look straighter (it bulged slightly with the draft as shown above). You can just see at the CF a biro mark on the left collar where the original, square shaping was. This version has a slight curve into the collar (not shown on the pattern, I freestyled this when marking it).

With stiff, sewn-in collar interfacing (I have some on order), this collar should spring nicely. Even as is, I like it.

[Hendrick]

Looks great as it is, like you said!

[Gerry]

Thank you Hendrick. One draft and a little snipping with a pair of shears, so all-in-all, I'm really pleased. I'll transfer the draft to card tomorrow so that I can make up some shirts (if Royal Mail could be bothered to deliver anything: a parcel arrived six weeks late the other day!).

Thanks to all who directed me along the right path! (very grateful).

[Gerry]

One final experiment. I reverted back to the original 5/8" overlap and curved more from that into the collar, further away from the centre front.

https://flic.kr/p/2nLcXdX

This highlights that my original draft is actually closer to the photo I posted initially (from around 1960/61). Interfacing springs it, making it look rounder than it actually is, but looking closely there's a little angularity to the 60s collar.

Frankly, I like all three drafts and may just make three different-collared shirts.

[Hendrick]

Agreed that this looks more like the pic... That said, I think the one before (at least for me) looks easier to wear with (say), a sport coat, whereas the last one has a more casual touch. You may need both...