Rotated Sleeve

[Steelmillal]

Hi ho Y'all,

My language barrier is slowing me down a bit despite finding voluminous amounts online. For me the archive search feature is missing on the old C&T as well and I can't find a certain photo found elsewhere that I can't download. So far, IMHO, I still default to maintaining fabric grain to match weave lines in the draft stage. Knowing arm slope becomes critical. Attaching links that may be helpful with comments from "the usual subjects".  Also, will stop by local big-box hardware to see what digital protractors are in stock v Amazon.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150907045639/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3143
https://web.archive.org/web/20151110095228/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58
https://web.archive.org/web/20150919124747/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2495

Top photo is crop of my son out in public wearing store bought shirt...see anything amiss?

Never before seen Nevin photo cycling in style...

Randomly found in-stock digital protractor links:
https://www.woodsmith.com/review/digital-protractor/
https://www.amazon.com/Transmitter-Receiver-Computer-Bluetooth-Headphone/dp/B07F2DM331/?tag=aim-ws1-20
https://www.amazon.com/digital-protractor/s?k=digital+protractor

[Gerry]

I've heard interviews with a number of tailors who use phone apps to determine shoulder slope etc. No idea what they're called though. There are certainly angle meter apps, as well as related apps to determine body shape/angles. No idea if they're relevant:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stfactory.anglemeter&hl=en_GB&gl=US

http://www.drgoniometer.com

http://nettelo.com/nettelo-app/

[posaune]

first view  the plaid of the sleeve is upside down
Thanks for the old C&T excerpt.

Now measuring the shoulder slope. I do it with my Ipad, there is an app out there. But: with ladies I don´t know if you can use it. I fear the body shoulder slope you measure is an result from pattern back shoulder slope and pattern front shoulder slope.
If I measure a slope about 21° it maybe that I have 19° in front of the pattern because of my bust and 23 ° in back which results in 19+23= 42/2 = 21 cm. If I draft a armhole in front for a 21 slope maybe it will gape?

I have found a good discription for rotating the sleeve in the book : Maatwerk passvorm correcties written by Rianet Knevel. I'll do a scan later.
lg
posaune

[Schneiderfrei]

That would be very interesting posaune.

LG

G

[posaune]

I just did a photo. I fear for the books condition when scaning,  it is made with heavy paper and only glued together


This is a very nice book. One of the best I have seen.  But you can buy it only used - if!
lg
posaune

[Steelmillal]

Came out fine, Ma'am. Doesn't answer the plaid match though, does it.

first view  the plaid of the sleeve is upside down
Thanks for the old C&T excerpt.

Yeah, he's worn worse in his current college years. 

Glad the links work for EU searches, Ma'am.

If I draft a armhole in front for a 21 slope maybe it will gape?

It's difficulty like that, for women's pattern especially, which makes me think older pattern systems work better v. 'unidimensional cuts' meant for maximum factory outputs. But I don't know.

Thx to Greger for posting long ago.

[Schneiderfrei]

The quickest sketch of the text possible, before bed:

ANGLED PLEATS IN THE BACK SLEEVE
The sleeve is tilted too far back

In someone with a very upright posture, who pulls his shoulders back strongly, but also in a wheelchair who always rests with the elbows on the railing, the upper arm often goes back more than normal. A standard sleeve insert gives a permanent pinching feeling and limits the freedom of movement.


Pleated pattern (Fig. 291)

From the back of the upper arm pleats run to the sleeve cap. The first fold is already in the armsgap, the last one is just above the elbow.

Changes

Changing existing clothing

1. The point a of the sleeve is opposite the shoulder seam of the piece. If necessary, mark this with a basting thread to see how much the sleeve will be tilted.
2. Remove the sleeve from the armhole.
3. Tilt the sleeve cap so that the point on the sleeve is in front of the shoulder seam. The bottom of the sleeve now points more to the back.
4. Place the sleeve back into the armhole.

[Steelmillal]

...parrots vincent from earlier... Found surfing the web... Is this then the best way, again focus on plaid pattern match?




Below sleeve related, but not the plaid pitch match answer. Posting for to capture.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150906223342/http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=494

[Greger]

The balance of the coat can be found by using one pin. The balance of the sleeve can be found the same way. The one pin method is really easy and fairly quick. With the sleeves you use one pin to hold the sleeve in place at the top. If it is not perfect you pull the pin out and shift the sleeve left right up down until it looks right and pin it. When you do it this way your brain is thinking without numbers and diagrams. For some people this is way faster. When doing this you pick visual clues about the body, the person,  body stance and other details. With this developing method you begin to draw your patterns accordingly. Add a bit of inlay for final corrections.
For beginners a muslin is wise. It is also blank. That means stripes of vertical and horizontal can be marked for cutting the outer cloth.
Some tailors think too many diagrams and numbers are a waste of time. Some are helpful, of course. Pin fitting is quick but, pay attention to movement. Some garments hang nicely but, with movement, are a mess.
Diagrams and numbers develope certain parts of the brain as does other methods other parts of the brain. Everyone's brain is wired different. With tailoring speed and accuracy brings in the money. To much time with numbers and diagrams is anti-profit.

[theblacksheep]

the sleeve rotation can be influenced with the position of the side seam/underarm notch on the sleeve, relative to the front armhole notch, when drafting. if you raise or lower the side seam position on drafting, keeping the front armhole notch constant, the pitch is changed

[pfaff260]

Posaune, I found this, does this help?

[Steelmillal]

All the more I have on this is some Pendelton plaid for inspiration...

[Gerry]

Some good, general advice about sleeves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIhatMDDOLo

[spookietoo]

Everyone, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for consolidating all of this onto one thread again!

I have sloped, narrow, forward shoulders with the outside elbows and apparently didn't print everything off in the last discussion. I'm going to print this whole thread this time for safe keeping!

-Tina

[Gerry]

Going back to the subject of matching plaid, this is the approach of Henry Poole (23:44 mark onwards)

https://youtu.be/N88IWPf0YeA?t=1424

And the end result shown here (14:10 mark)

https://youtu.be/onjj4bPBkm4?t=850

Plenty of inlay seems to be order of the day.