Button Down Pattern with Collar Roll

[Pergamon]

Dear forum members,

I have a shirtmaking problem I couldnt solve by try-and-error:
A couple of months ago I made this heavy denim shirt with my first try on a rolling button down collar, which I think didnt come out so bad. (see photo and collar pattern below)
However now I'm trying to reproduce this in a much lighter shirting fabric and it wont roll.
I think it wasnt the right pattern in the first place, but I was able to make it work by just positioning the buttons right (with the heavy fabric). Does anyone happen to have a "genuine" button down collar pattern from a classic shirt with collar roll, that they would be willing to share with me? Any secret tricks? I would be very thankful and promise to share photos of the final results...

Happy friday!

[peterle]

The collar looks good in denim, so when you used the same pattern it´s probably not the pattern. A thinner fabric will need a different inlay as the denim one. What kind of inlay did you use? Iron on? Sew in?

When sewing a collar, precision is needed, both in joinig the collar to the collar band and sewing  the collar to the body. Small shiftings can have a visible impact, and shirting fabric is much less forgiving than denim. It´s good to recheck whether the pattern lines match precisely in length and to mark the matching points  with little cuts in the sewing allowance ("Knips" in German).

(when I look closely to your pic, it seems the collar band is a tad longer at the button hole side than at the button side. When it´s true, is it by purpose?)

[posaune]

I am no expert at all, but  I think the collar seam looks like it is a bit longer than the stand where it will be attached.
And in your pic the collar sits for my taste a bit too high and not in the real neckhole depth. But That may be the pic.
lg
posaune

[peterle]

no expert, LOL

[Pergamon]

The collar looks good in denim, so when you used the same pattern it´s probably not the pattern. A thinner fabric will need a different inlay as the denim one. What kind of inlay did you use? Iron on? Sew in?

When sewing a collar, precision is needed, both in joinig the collar to the collar band and sewing  the collar to the body. Small shiftings can have a visible impact, and shirting fabric is much less forgiving than denim. It´s good to recheck whether the pattern lines match precisely in length and to mark the matching points  with little cuts in the sewing allowance ("Knips" in German).

(when I look closely to your pic, it seems the collar band is a tad longer at the button hole side than at the button side. When it´s true, is it by purpose?)

Thanks for your reply.
I did not use any interlining, because I want to achieve a more relaxed look to the collar...
You noticed correctly, that one side is actually longer than the other – I put on a fairly wide button placket so I made the button side less wide. The CF is still correct though.

[Pergamon]

I am no expert at all, but  I think the collar seam looks like it is a bit longer than the stand where it will be attached.
And in your pic the collar sits for my taste a bit too high and not in the real neckhole depth. But That may be the pic.
lg
posaune

Thanks for the advice,
do you think this could be the reason for the puckering visible in the back of the collar?

[Petruchio]

I am no expert at all, but  I think the collar seam looks like it is a bit longer than the stand where it will be attached.
And in your pic the collar sits for my taste a bit too high and not in the real neckhole depth. But That may be the pic.
lg
posaune

Thanks for the advice,
do you think this could be the reason for the puckering visible in the back of the collar?

My guess would be that the puckering comes from a lack of stability due to the missing interlining and might be enhanced by the collar height in relation to the height of the stand. Depending on what kind of interlining you want to use, I always use the Pendle interlining from acorn for my Button-Downs, even when working with rather heavy oxford and the like. But I would agree with peterle of course that one should use different interlinings depending on the shirting itself, when aiming for similar outcome. Then again, contrary to posaune I'm really no expert . Shirt looks great by the way.

[peterle]

Ok, I see. At least the stand should have some inlay otherwise it will collaps very soon. To achieve a relaxed look you can also use the shirt fabric for the collar inlay.

There are a thousand possibilities, how and why a collar puckers. Pics would help to nail the right one.

[Pergamon]

I've made some progress regarding the button down collar, that I wanted to share with you guys.

I made 5 sample collars of the same material, each with a slightly different pattern, but the key measurements are:

collar points: ± 100mm
collar height cb: 45mm
collar stand height cb: 39mm


here are the top 3:

Nr.3: No interlining at all, OK, puckering in the back






Nr.4: No interlining at all, too much like a cone, front looks nice though






Nr.5: Different Collar stand with a rather stiff fused interlining, collar without any interlining, there seems to be some diagonal pull on the collar side






What do you think? Which seems to be the best option for the collar stand?

[peterle]

You wear the collars a bit too high in the front. When sewn to the neckline of the shirt, they will be positioned much lower. So I think it is impossible to predict how they will finally fit.