Author Topic: Slim fit trouser  (Read 154 times)

posaune

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Slim fit trouser
« on: October 14, 2020, 03:48:44 AM »
Strolling through the net brought me another goodie.
Rundschau discription how they did a slim fitting trouser. It must be around 1960. Looks well, and is well explained.
Lg
posaune
it starts with: die anliegende Form......





TTailor

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2020, 11:30:35 PM »
Is there a text reading technology out there which can translate articles like this.
I can follow the drafting in German but I wish I could read the pages of text!

Thanks posaune!

posaune

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2020, 02:31:53 AM »
I think: No - it is a jpg. But maybe one of our guys has this edition. I think there is maybe a page missing. They spoke about showing how it can be developed from the standard form. The drawing shows how it differ from the standard form. But Rundschau would not be Rundschau if they did not explain it more. And I think it must be from the late 50 into 60er. Because I remember when the men began to look more sportiv.
lg
posaune

Hendrick

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2020, 06:29:49 AM »

Terry, there are possibilities for that. If you have a sophisticated scanner it usually comes with ocr-software that can distill text out of bitmapped images. I think that Adobe Acrobat professional has a funtion for ocr as well. Curiously, though, my computer savvy sons use a free program, called OCR Free. It is open source and according to them it works quite well, even on lesser quality images...

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2020, 08:02:30 AM »
My text reading technology is to copy the text with AABBYY OCR, paste into google translate, and then edit in Word, until its looking good.

I will do it, as for the Dutch article but I have been busy, sorry.

G

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2020, 08:31:38 AM »
Posaune,

I must ask, 1 where did you find these images? or 2 can you re-scan the images at a higher resolution?

The images have too few dots per inch to read clearly ortoscaninto the OCR.

Maybe Peterle, Pfaff260, Henrick has a better copy please?

G

peterle

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2020, 10:09:55 AM »
Sorry, no better copy. I donīt have this article in my literature. But I did the translation:

The slim fit form of modern trousers

Looking critically at the profile of normal trousers shows a lot of fabric fullness especially at the back thigh, wich isnīt filled by the body. The fabric bridges the natural hollow of the body between buttocks and the back of the knee. One can easily pin away a double 1-2cm of width without losing any comfort. Bringing the trousers nearer to the body in that area would result in a much slimmer looking garment. The question is how the fabric can be removed without adding additional seams.

The thigh width gets reduced, drawing 3 and 4:
Our first drawing shows that the pattern gets reduced, where the hollow of the body demands it. We clipped 1,5cm at the center line beginning at the knee and fading out to the hip width line. Than the pattern was slashed a few times from the side seam towards the cropped area. The same happens from the inseam. Now the pattern gets closed at the center line.
This procedure changes the length of the side seam and inseam. To get a flat pattern the slashes overlap, wich means a shortening of the seamlines. But to reach a good pass form, the lost length must be readded later by stretching the seamlines with ironwork. Only then the trousers will follow the hollow of the leg. The pattern will also open towards the back seam. As we donīt want this additional length, it got pinched away in the pattern.
The second drawing shows the difference between the two versions. When redrawing the seamlines we additionally took some of the hip width which also decreased the thigh width a bit more. Side seam and inseam have a hollowed form, which is to be straightened by stretching. Itīs also interesting that the even distribution of the width from the back center line was preserved throughout the process. The topsides have been altered in a similar manner, which means the distribution of the width from the center line was kept even.
The trousers were cut and sewn but showed a flaw in the fitting. The center crease was pulled towards the side seam. The trousers had to be let out (made wider)  at the side seam. But we could keep the reduced thigh width, because the inseam could be reduced for the same amount. The experiment showed that in slimmer trousers itīs not possible to keep an even width distribution from the crease line, because the hip and thigh bone needs a certain width in the sides seam wich is not needed in the “soft parts” at the inseam.
Abbildung 3: the front view
Abbildung 4: the side view shows a slimming hollowing of the undersides.
The following text announces how to achieve a slimmer version with a normal pattern template but yadda yadda yadda  just describes how the slimmer trousers fit. The actual text for the alteration isnīt part of the jpgs anymore. The use of pattern templates makes me think the article is from the early 60īs when Mueller intoduced the pattern templates.


Itīs exactly the method I used to make slimmer trousers and works really well. When using non woolens be sure to make the slashes in the bias direction to get as much stretchability as possible

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2020, 01:32:13 PM »
Thank you peterle,

Great work.

G

pfaff260

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2020, 04:07:15 PM »
I will have a look in my archive, but like Schneiderfrei, i'm quite busy at he moment. But i promis, i'll have a look.

TTailor

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2020, 11:41:50 PM »
Thanks for the OCR Free recommendation! I will check it out. Many scans saved as jpg are not clear enough for them to work but its worth a try. If I find text that can be copied and pasted Google translate does work fairly well.
I have been known to type out paragraphs in German into Google translate.

Peterle, wow, thanks so much!
I certainly didn't expect this, its very generous of you to take the time to do this.


pfaff260

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 10:36:02 PM »
I've looked trough more then 10 years of Rundschau But couldn't find your article. Only examples like below.




Hendrick

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 05:31:06 AM »
Compliments Peterle; nice to get the reasoning behind the built....

peterle

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2020, 08:33:04 PM »
I donīt want to withhold the other part of the text of the first page. It deals with the through measure of the trousers and how to determin it in the Mueller (Rundschau)system:

The through measure of trousers Zeichnung 2
Like the armhole diameter the through measure is quite important for the fit but not that easy to measure or to transfer to the pattern. The through- measure often follows just empirical values, the experiences of our forefathers and individual workshop traditions and less scientific reasons. Additionally the through- measure often can only be determined and controlled by means of the construction lines which are usually missing in a finished pattern.
To control the through-measure independently from the construction points for all hip measures, certain points have to be established:
1.   Measure 1/10 of the half hip measure +3cm from the crotch line upwards on top and under side. In the top side draw a line perpendicular to the crease line which gives you the measuring point at the crotch line of the RIGHT topside(the smaller one). In the under side you get the control point by drawing a line perpendicular to the upper crotch seam.
2.   Now position the pattern pieces in a way that the inseam edges meet for 5cm at the crotch seam. (Hint by translator: the pattern has 0,75cm SA included but no SA at the back crotch line, so there is a step of 0,75cm to make the actual sewing lines meet. Donīt overlap the inseam SAs)
Now itīs easy to measure the through measure between the controlling points. We achieved a through measure of ž hip width minus 1,5cm =24,5cm  for our normal standard trousers.
It should be made clear that the through measure is closely connected to the thigh width. The larger the through measure, the larger the thigh width. Therefor sometimes concessions have to be made.
Abbildung 1: front view of the standard trousers
Abblidung2: back view of the standard trousers

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Slim fit trouser
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2020, 12:02:37 AM »
Thank you for adding the first section peterle, I was very keen to understand this part.

G