Author Topic: Developing the "Casual" Jacket  (Read 40510 times)

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2016, 12:46:29 PM »
The side seams have been sewn at the position you wanted.  Chest and waist lines have been re-drawn in red.  Do you want me to cut away the surplus material from the front armholes?










A front dart, a front side seam, a back side seam and CB seam? Do you want to keep the yoke and added folds? The jackets Iīve seen continue the folds all the way up to the shoulder seam without a yoke:

Yes, I want to keep the back folds and yoke.  Without a yoke I would need shoulder darts, which I don't think would look good in this style of jacket.

posaune

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2016, 07:12:36 PM »
congratulation for both of you, Peterle and Jim
lg
posaune

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2016, 10:22:45 PM »
I made a change so I wouldn't have to recut the armholes.

From the position of the new chest lines, it was clear that I had added 1" of length to the front balance, and deducted 1/2" from the back balance.  I was able to recover these amounts by shifting the yoke seams.  Having done this, I re-sewed the side seams together at the original (black) chest and waist lines.

We should be ready to proceed with the darts.









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2016, 04:28:43 AM »
Please stay with the toile of #60 and recut the armholes. The lines of #61 are not horizontal anymore.
(There is a difference between shifting the front at the side seam and letting some length out of the yoke seam: shifting the fronts upwards keeps the chestline at the same distance from the floor at CF but lifts the front at the side of the body. Thus the chestline gets horizontal all over. Your alteration just shifts the whole fronts downwards but keeps the slanted run of the line. we donīt want this).

Its easy to redo the lower armholes. just use your paper pattern as a template and shift it till it meets the new chest line.

Back darts: take the basted fold line as the center line of a dart.  mark 1/2" to the left and to the right of this line at the hem line. from this marks draw a straight line to the point where the center line meets the armhole, wich is about the half in between chestline and yoke seam.  voilá: the back darts. (a waist surpression would not make sense with the folds)

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2016, 07:33:45 AM »

(a waist surpression would not make sense with the folds)


Well, I want to keep the folds, and some waist suppression is necessary.  So we need to find a way:

- Return to CB dart, maybe not so high?

- Use a back waistband, and taper the side of the pattern; essentially combining the dart with the fold?

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #65 on: August 22, 2016, 09:39:44 AM »
So here's my latest harebrained scheme:

- 1" of additional material pleated into each back fold from waist to hem

- a CB wedge, 1/2" from hem to waist and then sloping to nothing at the chest line

(both of these will stop at top of back belt on the finished version)

- a small (1/4") dart at lower front scye, pointing toward the middle of the front chest line.  The ends of these can be hidden under pocket flaps.

I didn't re-set the side seams, because this is just kicking around ideas.

Now everyone can tell me why it won't work...









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #66 on: August 22, 2016, 08:27:29 PM »
Itīs not kicking around ideas. It is obvious that #60 is better than #61.

Yoke, CB seam and waist surpression:
Without a yoke  there would be a CB seam and the yoke dart would be manipulated and redistributed by slashing and pivotin: a very little towards the CB (left unsewn and making the CB seam a bit curvy),  a bit more towards the shoulder seam( wich would be eased in and not sewn as a dart) and a little bit would be left at the armhole (not sewn as well, makes the back scye a bit  more comfy). Thatīs how the back is done in my linked pics.
Only in this case a very little waist surpression can be made at the center back seam. itīs simply the wrong place for waist surpression ( the best place is where the seams of an denim jacket back are located).
With a yoke you wonīt have a cb seam, yoke and additional cb seam would be redundant and ugly.

So a waist surpression at the back can only be installed at the dart lines. When you carry the folds all the way down to the belt, the waist surpression will only make the folds gape with hardly any impact on the shape. But it would work when the folds are  sewn closed in the lower area, from a bit above the half in between chest and waist line downwards.
So I would recommend a yokeless style, with folds starting at the black marked shoulder seam and endig above the waist. Thatīs also the place where they are needed for arm movement.
A little waist surpression can also be made in the side seams.

By the way:  Iīm pretty sure your waist lines are yet too low. Your true waist is higher. Check it with a cord tied around your body at the small of your back.

Front dart: you donīt have to live with this armhole dart. Manipulate it into a classical vertical front dart. Transfer the armhole dart to your paper pattern, slash the paper pattern verticaly from the hem upwards to the tip of the dart. Pivot the scye dart (nearly) close and the dart will open towards the hem.  The actual dart has to be a bit shorter. You can eventually integrate a very little waist surpression into this vertical dart.


posaune

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #67 on: August 22, 2016, 09:40:58 PM »
I attach a pic, which shows how a shaped back is drafted. Black is the shaped back. Note the Back width ist measured from the already shaped line.
The distance to the neckpoint is 39.4. Now the red (this like your sloper). The back width is measured from the fold. The distance to neck point is 38.4. So we have a surplus of 0.7 cm in the shaped draft. Fabric which is used for mobility especially in thight drafts. 3. pic is one over the other.
With your posture I would shape the back even more: But this another draft and you want to do your book sloper.
If you take out at back like you wanted you will take away where you need it. The right place for a dart  is where Peterle described it

lg
posaune

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #68 on: August 22, 2016, 11:51:37 PM »
Thank you both for your replies.  You are a wealth of information.


Without a yoke there would be a CB seam and the yoke dart would be manipulated and redistributed by slashing and pivotin: a very little towards the CB (left unsewn and making the CB seam a bit curvy), a bit more towards the shoulder seam( wich would be eased in and not sewn as a dart) and a little bit would be left at the armhole (not sewn as well, makes the back scye a bit more comfy). Thatīs how the back is done in my linked pics.

I think this complex manipulation is beyond my skill level at this point.  And, during the sloper and first jacket threads I thought it was settled that my prominent shoulder blades would require either a yoke or shoulder darts for a good fitting upper back.  Given the choice, I would prefer the yoke for this style jacket. 

I have a leather flight jacket with a yoke and back folds, and arm movement is not a problem.  Maybe it would be even better if the folds went higher up, but it's enough with the yoke.

So a waist surpression at the back can only be installed at the dart lines. When you carry the folds all the way down to the belt, the waist surpression will only make the folds gape with hardly any impact on the shape. But it would work when the folds are sewn closed in the lower area, from a bit above the half in between chest and waist line downwards....

...A little waist surpression can also be made in the side seams...

...Front dart: you donīt have to live with this armhole dart. Manipulate it into a classical vertical front dart. Transfer the armhole dart to your paper pattern, slash the paper pattern verticaly from the hem upwards to the tip of the dart. Pivot the scye dart (nearly) close and the dart will open towards the hem. The actual dart has to be a bit shorter. You can eventually integrate a very little waist surpression into this vertical dart.


Using these ideas, what I would like to do next is:

- Keep the yoke, but no CB seam
- Half belt at back
- Waist suppression at the folds, but ending above the waist
- Waist suppression (small) at side seams
- Vertical front darts with small waist suppression

It is obvious that #60 is better than #61.
By the way: Iīm pretty sure your waist lines are yet too low. Your true waist is higher. Check it with a cord tied around your body at the small of your back.

A new toile is required, so I will take these points into account in the draft.



peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2016, 03:29:15 AM »
For a waist surpression you need the right waistline, otherwise you donīt know where to make it.

Skip the waist surpression on the front dart for the moment, you can make it later when necessary.
Donīt overdo the surpressions, a small amount can do wonders for the shape, but a little too much will distort the garment. You can shift the side seams forward for 1"-1,5" before you do the surpression.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2016, 01:26:47 PM »
Here is the new toile as described in #68.  I decided to wait on the back belt since peterle mentioned moving the side seam location.  Also, the only waist suppression at this point is what I incorporated at the base of the back folds.  The front darts are just what resulted from pivoting the scye darts closed.









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #71 on: August 24, 2016, 01:51:06 AM »
Dart manipulation is easy, isnīt it? It would be as easy at the back too...

sides seams: draw a parallel line to the side seam about 1-1,5" at the front. this will be your new side seam line. in the paper pattern just cut this stripe off the front and add it to the back.
At this line as center line make the waist surpression by drawing a fish formed (not diamond shaped) dart, the wide part (2cm should be enough for the moment) is to be placed above the waistline.(yourīs is yet too deep!) In the case of love handles in this area, the lower tip of the fish should be short enough. But itīs also  possible your body allows to continue the surpression to the hem, leaving the lower tip open. so the form depends on your body shape.

Back dart: Did you take the fold line as center line of the dart or did you just enlarge the fold depth for another inch keeping the fold line?
For the surpression mark 5-8mm to the left and to the right of the existing dart at the waistline and draw two lines upwards angeled from the waistline about 3-4 ". connect the end points with the top  tip of the back dart. Below the waistline continue the lines to the end points of the existing dart so the hem keeps itīs width. this new dart lines must be sewn from the hem to the end of the 3-4" lines.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #72 on: August 24, 2016, 02:27:13 AM »
Here is the pattern so you can see what I did.

For the back, the pleats are now tapered from 1-1/2" intake (3" total) at top to 2" intake (4" total) at bottom.  This results in 1" of waist suppression per pleat.  Below the waist line, the pleats are cut off and the seam is sewn straight down to the hem.



The front darts are straight, as resulted from pivoting the scye darts closed.  I thought I might take a little more out at the waist line, leaving the same amount at the hem, creating a fish shaped dart.


sides seams: draw a parallel line to the side seam about 1-1,5" at the front. this will be your new side seam line. in the paper pattern just cut this stripe off the front and add it to the back.

What about angling the side seam, so it still meets the scye at center bottom?  I like having this reference mark for the sleeve seam location.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2016, 03:47:18 AM »
Here I have pinned out a fish shaped dart at the (advanced) side seam location peterle recommended.  I think this is tight enough in the waist; it doesn't need to be skin-tight.

I see two things:

- Maybe I can turn the lower part of the front dart (below the waist line) into a sort of belly dart, in order to tighten the hem a little at front.  Leave it the same width at waist line but angle more steeply to the hem.

- The right side of the chest appears to be loose, and the back pleat is gaping on that side.  Did the waist suppression at side seam cause this (it didn't on the left), or is something else going on?  Maybe the shoulder seam needs to be repositioned on the yoke?  Or maybe the right chest is too wide?









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2016, 04:23:19 AM »
First: the initial back darts should have been continued all the way down to the hem. These darts are wedges to remove additional width from the armscye to the hips. you should continue the lines straightly from the waistline down.


A slanted seam makes troubles in surpression. Keep the side seam parallel and simply mark the middle of armscye when you need it as reference.

Yes, you can take a wedge out to make the front hem a bit tighter. Donīt overdo it.

Please pin the darts to the insides, otherwise I canīt see the effect. It would be even better to sew it with large stitches and a looser top thread tension.


Right chest and back: This is always the same issue in all the patterns. your right and left are not symmetrical. It seems your right shoulder and arm is shifted to the back and your right chest seems to be less voluminous then the left. This would demand a complicated pattern adaption, and I donīt want to open this Pandoraīs box.


ONCE MORE: CHECK WETHER THE WAISTLINE MEETS YOUR BODY`S WAIST!!!