Author Topic: Developing the "Casual" Jacket  (Read 37472 times)

peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2016, 08:36:59 PM »
In any case you have to remove this CB dart.
It throws off the upper back completely. Try yourself: join the cb pattern pieces from the yoke to the waist and look what happens to the yokeseam/darts. They change dramatically. Thatīs what makes the back wander downwards.


(I like the first #41 better because itīs not distorted (calm back folds), all lines are horizontal, the ease is distributed evenly around the body wich makes it a lot easier to form the garment with pinning. In this case I would make an exception from the rule and -quick and dirty- just fill the back neckhole and cut out the front neck.)









jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2016, 10:40:10 PM »
(In this case I would make an exception from the rule and -quick and dirty- just fill the back neckhole and cut out the front neck.)

This is not as "quick and dirty" as cutting a taller yoke piece, which will fill in the neck hole and put the shoulder seam back in position.  It can be sewn further down on the fronts and then the front neck can be re-cut.

In any case you have to remove this CB dart.
It throws off the upper back completely. Try yourself: join the cb pattern pieces from the yoke to the waist and look what happens to the yokeseam/darts. They change dramatically. Thatīs what makes the back wander downwards.

Rather than fill in this dart on the short version, and pin the folds closed, I think it will be easier to take the collar and sleeves off the long one (which has no back dart) and then adjust the balance.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2016, 11:32:04 PM »
All right.  Here is the long version with all external influences removed.  This is the same pattern as the short jacket (post #44), except there is no CB dart and no golf back, and of course, it's longer.

First, the with the balance as drawn:









Second, with the fronts raised 1"  relative to the backs:










peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2016, 04:43:54 AM »
 Can you please make some pics with the center back neck pinned in place where it belongs to?

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2016, 08:01:41 AM »
Alright, here the back neck is pinned to the sweater collar.  Same two balance settings as in the previous post (#47).
First, the balance as drawn:










Second - front raised 1" relative to back:









jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2016, 10:55:41 AM »
And, just for fun:

Short jacket
All waist suppression removed from CB seam
Fronts raised 1" relative to backs
Neckhole "filled in" (restored to correct location) by adding 1" to yoke at back, and taking 1" deeper seams at top of fronts.  This also puts the shoulder seams in their proper position.  Front of neckhole has not been cut down yet.









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2016, 10:23:34 PM »
Concerning the short version:
You essentially just made the back balance longer with this alteration. the fronts moved up for 1" and cut off 1" at their top sums up to +/- 0. when you join the fronts as drawn( continuing chest line and former yoke line) you donīt need to cut out the neckline and the lower armholes.
But I would prefer you to keep the fronts shifted upwards but sewn to the yoke at the former line or half in between them.

To make it clear: the center back dart wasnīt a waist surpression, it was a wedging of the upper back making the CB longer relatively to the armhole side. Thatīs why it made problems. A waist surpression would just be made from the chestline downwards to the waistline and a bit further.

For the long pinned versions it seems they are a bit tight at the front belly. I would like to see some pics with just the uppest button closed to determin wether we need some additional width at the belly.

All versions have a back that swings away at the hem. This will be corrected in the next step taking it out at roughly at the bi fold lines.but these chest -hip darts will not reach the yoke.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2016, 11:52:33 PM »
Concerning the short version:
You essentially just made the back balance longer with this alteration. the fronts moved up for 1" and cut off 1" at their top sums up to +/- 0. when you join the fronts as drawn( continuing chest line and former yoke line) you donīt need to cut out the neckline and the lower armholes.

It's not just a balance change.  The yoke seam is now in a lower position on my upper back.  This seam acts like a dart and needs to be in the right place relative to the shoulder blade prominence.  I think that's why the back looks better now.

But I would prefer you to keep the fronts shifted upwards but sewn to the yoke at the former line or half in between them.

So we need a longer back balance, but not as much?  I will drop the fronts half an inch and see how that looks.


For the long pinned versions it seems they are a bit tight at the front belly. I would like to see some pics with just the uppest button closed to determin wether we need some additional width at the belly.

There is no top button (obviously I can add one).  But if you look at #47 (not pinned to the collar), there is plenty of extra room at the waist line.  Are you saying this needs to be redistributed?

To make it clear: the center back dart wasnīt a waist surpression, it was a wedging of the upper back making the CB longer relatively to the armhole side. Thatīs why it made problems. A waist surpression would just be made from the chestline downwards to the waistline and a bit further.

All versions have a back that swings away at the hem. This will be corrected in the next step taking it out at roughly at the bi fold lines.but these chest -hip darts will not reach the yoke.

OK, I understand that now.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2016, 01:47:26 AM »
Here the fronts have been lowered 1/2" at the front yoke seams:

The shoulder seams are starting to creep backwards.  If you want any more front length I think we should lower the chest line, not let any more out at this seam.









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2016, 04:48:55 AM »
when you want to proceed with the short version, i would like to see it with the fronts raised another 1/2" in the side seams.

to get the back nearer to the body please close the bifolds by basting or remove them. itīs easier to add them after the back is right.



There is no top button (obviously I can add one).  But if you look at #47 (not pinned to the collar), there is plenty of extra room at the waist line.  Are you saying this needs to be redistributed?

[/quote]

iīm less concerned about the waistline. the toile seems to be tight a bit below the waistline and the last button seems to be stressed a bit in #49. I wanted to see wether the center front will gape there when the last 4 buttons are unbuttoned. It is possible that the belly pulls the garment towards the front because it is to tight there.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2016, 10:43:09 AM »
when you want to proceed with the short version, i would like to see it with the fronts raised another 1/2" in the side seams.

to get the back nearer to the body please close the bifolds by basting or remove them. itīs easier to add them after the back is right.


All right, here is what you asked for:









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2016, 06:53:47 PM »
Thank you. I think the balance looks good now.

First we should reestablish the right chest and waist lines: wearing the toile take a ruler and put it under your arm horizontally exactly where the jumper sleeve begins without pushing the sleeve up. let your wife mark the point where the upper edge of the ruler meets the side seam. Most probably this will be somewhere between the front and back chestline. Draw the new chest lines parallely to the old ones from this point.  Harmonize the lower armhole lines with the new chestline, using your pattern as template. Redraw the waistlines also with the same distance.

I will take this as target: http://www.ima-usa.com/original-u-s-wwii-82nd-airborne-first-sergeant-ike-jacket.html

A front dart, a front side seam, a back side seam and CB seam? Do you want to keep the yoke and added folds? The jackets Iīve seen continue the folds all the way up to the shoulder seam without a yoke:




jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2016, 11:53:54 PM »
Thank you. I think the balance looks good now.

I'm not sure we are there yet.

Your reminder about the "uppest button" (post #51) reminded me of J King Wilson's "immediate action" major vertical balance tests.  Specifically this one:



If the fronts swing away with only the top button buttoned, and the back pulls away, then the back balance is too short.

So I added a top button and hole, and look what happens.  Buttoning the top one forces the back neck into its proper position, and the short back becomes obvious:









jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2016, 11:59:49 PM »
Now I lower the front until the chest lines agree (1-1/2")  Here is how it looks unbuttoned:









And buttoned:









To me this seems like much better balance; the jacket fits the same buttoned or unbuttoned, and the neck lies in its proper place.  No, the hem is not parallel to the floor but I can recut it. 
If this is not right would you please explain why?  Maybe this style requires a short back for some reason?

peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2016, 01:48:42 AM »
the things you did, donīt make the back balance longer. It stays the same. shifting the front upwards makes the front balance longer, shifting it downwards makes the front balance shorter. I want a longer front balance because I want  the chest line to be horizontal and to have some material above the chestline, to be able to make a small chest dart towards the armhole or leave it a bit looser like all the ike jackets I have seen. Itīs also easier to manipulate such a dart for different garment styles once it is established.
Lifting the front does have the side effect that the lower center front is pulled more towards the body. This could cause the fronts to be too small at the center front belly heigth. This is even more an issue with a forward hip posture. In this case it would be necessary to draw the belly point( called LV in the scetch above) a bit protruding from the fall line of the chest point (Bp above).  In the long version this problem seems obvious, thatīs why I asked you to show these pics.