Author Topic: A Close-Fitting Sloper  (Read 85972 times)

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2016, 11:43:45 AM »
Here we are with peterle's suggested changes.  3/8" sewn out of the back above the chest line, and 5/8" added to the front.  If it looks like more, it's because I hemmed the cut edges 1/4" in case I have to move them again.

I think the balance is much better now:















hutch--

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2016, 02:35:51 PM »
Jim,

It woud probably help if you ironed the test piece as it will show how it drops a lot clearer.
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posaune

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2016, 05:19:06 PM »
yep better. Now snip little snips around the neckhole . It is a bit to tight. The neck will take what it needs. and you will see that and transfer it to your draft. The back needs a little wedge in in CB 0.8 cm, I think. It stands away and bust line goes a bit up.  Then you have to bring up the right side. Remove the sleeve and start with taking away1 cm at shoulderseam taper to nothing at neck. open the side seam from waist to hip at right side. Controll your self with a pic from back side and right side view. Do more if necessary.
good luck
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peterle

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2016, 07:51:10 PM »
Posaune is too polite to say:

Probably it would have been better to add the hole 2,5cm to the front balance. The back chestline bows upwards a bit now because it is too short and the armholes push the chestline down.



jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2016, 10:25:48 PM »
Posaune is too polite to say:

Probably it would have been better to add the hole 2,5cm to the front balance. The back chestline bows upwards a bit now because it is too short and the armholes push the chestline down.


I'm not so sure, because I can feel things that the photos don't show.

With the latest adjustment the front of the neckhole is sitting against my neck.  I can't feel the back, but my wife says it is right at the nape.

I'm concerned that if I make the front longer (1cm or 3/8"), and take an equal amount from the back, the neckhole will come further back.  This would make the collar stand away from the back of the neck and put pressure against the throat.

Plus, it's easier to put in a wedge :).  Or actually, change the shape of the strip I sewed out of the back so it takes less from CB length.

And just for Hutch, I'll go over it with the iron afterwards.

peterle

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2016, 10:55:50 PM »

Quote
I'm concerned that if I make the front longer (1cm or 3/8"), and take an equal amount from the back, the neckhole will come further back.  This would make the collar stand away from the back of the neck and put pressure against the throat.

This is a misunderstanding:
You should make the front longer AND the back longer (by removing the 1cm strip seam).
This would shift the hole chestline 1cm downwards. So the armholes get 1cm deeper and donīt get pushed down by the arms anymore, because they are deep enough.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 11:44:33 PM by hutch-- »

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2016, 12:29:44 AM »

This is a misunderstanding:
You should make the front longer AND the back longer (by removing the 1cm strip seam).
This would shift the hole chestline 1cm downwards. So the armholes get 1cm deeper and donīt get pushed down by the arms anymore, because they are deep enough.


OK.  So in other words, no change in balance, but deeper scyes.  And rather than recut the scyes, add length to front and back.

This means new sleeves, but I'm sure that was coming anyway.


peterle

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2016, 12:57:18 AM »
Front balance longer and back balance longer=deeper armholes.

Thatīs what balance is about. To get the chestline deep enough to pass under the arms and to get it level all around.

Try the back wedge alteration first, maybe it succeedes.

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2016, 01:56:30 AM »

Try the back wedge alteration first, maybe it succeedes.

Too late now!  While you were typing, I was altering.

I dropped the front and back equal amounts.  Added a gusset to the sleeve seam under the arm to account for the extra scye length.

It seems to have had the desired effect.  Pressure on the scye under the right arm is probably due to the dropped shoulder.

The wrinkles in the upper back are a little more noticeable.  Is there too much width here or is something else going on?












« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 04:18:04 AM by jruley »

Greger

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2016, 02:15:23 AM »
Peterle,  your description of balance sounds like shoulder slope and armhole size, which has nothing to do with balance. Balance has to do with raising one neckline and lowering the other, front and back or back and front. What it does have with the armholes is rotate them into there proper position. In other words, the "egg shape" has been rotated to fit the, since out of balance throw it out of kilter. Therefore, properly placed angle wise. A well designed pattern system the neckline and armhole shape work together - by fixing one you fix the other. So, another way to see if balance is correct is to glance at the armhole (each armhole has its own balance). A poor pattern system is unreliable.

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2016, 04:45:05 AM »
What it does have with the armholes is rotate them into there proper position. In other words, the "egg shape" has been rotated to fit the, since out of balance throw it out of kilter. Therefore, properly placed angle wise.

I'm curious.  Which one of your reference books contains this definition of balance?  I'd like to learn more about it.  Several authors have slightly different definitions, but I haven't seen one that included armscye rotation.



« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 10:36:07 AM by jruley »

Henry Hall

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2016, 07:49:53 AM »
I'm glad I'm not JRuley making this block, I'd have torn out all my hair by now. I'm not sure there has been full acknowledgement of the effects of the scoliosis, so the recommendations look like they are yo-yo-ing back and forth (and all over the place).
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hutch--

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2016, 08:03:42 AM »
I think Jim is doing a great job, this style of research is a gold mine of information for people who are interested in coat design but have not done as much research as Jim has done. I have enjoyed reading this range of posts because sooner or later I want to design a jacket out of a fabric I have here but don't really know enough about sleeve design. The preferred design I am after is a raglan sleeve with a raised center seam so that I don't tear out the armpit or top seam. (very square shoulders).
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Henry Hall

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2016, 08:14:31 AM »
I also think Jim is doing a great job.
‘Being perfectly well-dressed gives one a tranquillity that no religion can bestow.’ - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2016, 10:46:42 AM »
I also think Jim is doing a great job.

Thank you, but the credit rightfully belongs to peterle, TTailor and posaune who are taking on the nearly impossible task of counseling a novice in another country (and time zone), without any real idea of his skill level or the accuracy of his measurements.  If Jim gets any credit it's for trying to ask the right questions and show a little tenacity.

There have been some differences in opinion, which is inevitable when more than one reviewer is involved; but the trends have been consistent:

- everyone agreed on the need for shoulder blade length

- everyone agreed on reducing the neckhole size

- everyone agreed on the front wedge

- everyone agreed on the balance adjustment, though it wasn't enough the first time

I hope we will soon have the balance nailed down to everyone's satisfaction, and can move on to the scoliosis/dropped shoulder corrections.  Then maybe clean up the upper back, and I can put in some darts and make a finished close-fitting shirt pattern.

Thanks again everyone for your time and patience!