Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Apprentices => The Apprentice's Forum => Topic started by: mysewingpleasure on April 04, 2019, 04:46:48 PM

Title: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 04, 2019, 04:46:48 PM
I watched the 2 videos Posted by: Sebastian Hoofs, I especially like to learn how to sew more professional tailoring method. It seems to me that the zipper is well-hidden inside the fry by at least half of an inch, which is very neat and adorable. I find that ladies` pants are usually set in only a quarter of an inch. However, I do not understand even one single word. Please help me to draft the seam allowance of the front center where the fry and the extension are. If possible, please refer a video about the construction of the waistband, I cannot understand written tutorial, because I do not understand all the vocabularies and the abbreviations.
Henry Hall has suggested Cabrera's tailoring book - the 1983 menswear edition in Apprentice's forum, I learn the basic idea, a video will be great. I wish Sebastian Hoofs will generously demonstrate with the wasitband, even I might not understand his speech.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: TTailor on April 04, 2019, 09:56:27 PM
Well technically you dont need to draft anything special at the CF fly area.
You can leave a larger seam allowance to work with. On the left front you will sew the fly facing on the CF line, on the right, sew the zipper your preferred distance from the CF line.
Trying out techniques on a sample is a good way to work through various possibilities.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: peterle on April 04, 2019, 10:27:07 PM
For the zip I refer to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3kFgUESzB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3kFgUESzB4)
First iron the zip with lots of steam to preshrink it.
Left side: Hoof does a sewing allowance of 1cm, on the left fly but sews the facing seam just 0,5-0,75 inwards from the edge, so the seam can be ironed backwards and dissapears.

Right side: Hoof adds "an additional cm" to the right topside above the notch so the zip can dissappear in the fly. So the sewing allowance adds up to 2cm from the notch upwards. Than he sews the top to the underlap by matching the edge of the zip (not the edge of the underlap!5:35) and the edge of the topside.

After closing the crotch seam (notch downwards) he sews the zip to the left topside. For this you have to mark the center front on the right topside, wich should be 1cm inwards from the zip seam, but you better measure it from the sideseam(8:07). After matching the left topside with the mark and after basting you can see exatcly where to sew the zip to the left topside facing (9:29).
Sew the facing to the topside: chalk line, baste, sew. In the last few cm also catch the underlap (12:28). You have to interrupt the seam when you sew it with the machine.
The underlap facing (15:15) is cut bias of pocketing fabric and wide enough to cover the underlap. It´s also long enough to cover the the hole center front down to the seam crossing (shown in 17:38). It´s tacked down there in the end to make the whole inside front area neat.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 05, 2019, 05:25:54 PM
Peterle, thank you so much for explain the details of how to construct the zipper. With your description, I understand a lot better, I really appreciate your help.

The other thing I am happy that, from the video, I learn how to eliminate some of the bias tape at the bottom of the fry , so it won't be as bulky I usually bias to the end.

 I always have problems with the cuffs with the split sleeves, upper collars and under collars joining the neckline.  The many layers of seam allowance at the turning corners look ugly and poor finished.  As a beginner of men's wear, I am eager to learn tailoring ( the more dedicate and elegant workmanship). Please refer more of these kind of videos
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 05, 2019, 05:33:36 PM
TTailor, thank you for your suggestion. I definitely will make a sample this weekend. I think I will understand more with step by step following the video. In modern technology world,  learning a new technique is a lot "easier" than 20 or 30 years ago, with the help of experienced people, we can learn at our own space and place, without having to pay institution fee, which otherwise most people cannot afford. I feel I am blessed to become a member among so many experts and learn from you.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: peterle on April 06, 2019, 08:33:45 PM

 I always have problems with the cuffs with the split sleeves, upper collars and under collars joining the neckline.  The many layers of seam allowance at the turning corners look ugly and poor finished.  As a beginner of men's wear, I am eager to learn tailoring ( the more dedicate and elegant workmanship). Please refer more of these kind of videos

Are you talking about shirt collars and cuffs?

These videos show a lot of tricks to get nice collar tips and well attached cuffs and collar stands: in particular notice how the Sewing allowances of the collar stand and the cuffs are sewn in place in a first step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNmJAGYgh64 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNmJAGYgh64)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H4nq229f5c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H4nq229f5c)
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 07, 2019, 03:44:49 PM
Peterle,
I can't say enough that how much I appreciate your recommending the videos of each step of making a shirt, I have learned so many "secrets' of how to get those four parts together. I have never seen such as helpful ones before, they drop my jaws and my eyes wide open. It is truly amazing.

I have a question : what is the white interfacing proper name? I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada, I had tried to find the interfacing such as this one.  It is pretty sturdy, but it is fusible. There is a lot of interfacing of non-woven fusible, which is not sturdy. What I am using mostly is Tricot, it is woven, it is like knit-y net, which is very good but not at all stiff enough that I have to include the seam allowance to keep it attached to the clothe.

I cannot find anything like this even I visited a few "Chained-brand-name-shores" selling sewing notions. I planed to buy online, however, I do not know what is the proper name of it. I tried to go Chinese, e.g. Ailbaba or Taobao, I do not which one to order, there are so many different kinds. Please help me to figure it out so that I can use this kind of interfacing for collars and cuffs without seam allowance to avoid all the bulky corners.

Thank you again for your time and patience with me.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: peterle on April 07, 2019, 07:30:12 PM
Sorry, I don´t know, what the man in the video uses.

I prefer a non fusible for shirts, and to get the right grade of stiffness i take a non fusible (collar shaped with sewing allowance) and iron on a fusible with the exact shape of the collar. Then I sew the collar and clip the sewing allowance of the interfacing as close as possible to the stitches. so the interfacing doesn't´t add any bulkyness.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: theresa in tucson on April 07, 2019, 11:22:38 PM
My Sewing Pleasure, try Pam Erny at Fashion Sewing Supply.  She's in new York and sells three different weights of shirt interfacing from very, very stiff to soft and supple.  I have used her interfacing for shirts and have been pleased.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 08, 2019, 05:11:19 PM
My Sewing Pleasure, try Pam Erny at Fashion Sewing Supply.  She's in new York and sells three different weights of shirt interfacing from very, very stiff to soft and supple.  I have used her interfacing for shirts and have been pleased.
Theresa, thank you for providing the supply shore, I went online to check it out, I am going to purchase the swatch set to test it out, it will be great help.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: posaune on April 08, 2019, 08:11:05 PM
Peterle , I think, you have twisted your words. The non fusiable(stiff fabric)  you cut without the seam allowances. I do it that way.

What I ever admire seeing videos from Asia how they cut out example: undercollar. Just a piece of fabric and of we go. He needs about 80 minutes to sew a shirt. I need for the sewing alone 6 hours.
lg
posaune
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Dunc on April 08, 2019, 09:49:23 PM
I use non-fusible shirt interfacing, and I've sewn it both with and without seam allowances. Either way works... Sometimes I actually want the extra thickness from the interfacing seam allowance, to give a slightly raised appearance to the edge of the collar once it's top stitched - in this case, it's important to trim the seam allowance so that it stays entirely inside the top stitching. (A rotary cutter is good for this.)

I no longer take peterle's approach of sewing the interfacing with a seam allowance and then trimming it as close to the stitching as possible, although I've done it that way in the past - these days, I cut the interfacing exactly to size and just rely on the liberal use of a glue stick to keep it stuck to the top collar long enough to turn and top stitch it. However, if you wanted to do very narrow top stitching, it might be a good idea - otherwise you risk the collar interfacing coming loose inside the collar when its laundered. I've had that happen with the collar stand interfacing a couple of times - now I do an extra line of top stitching around the edge of the collar (where it sits inside the collar stand) to prevent that.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Greger on April 09, 2019, 09:23:39 AM
Thicker can be cut exact. Then sew a thin piece to that, which will be  part of the seam to  hold it in place (that is along the edges).
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 09, 2019, 10:49:43 AM
Dunc, I never thought of using glue stick, I need to give it a try. I have just watched a Youtube this afternoon, it is amazingly exactly what Peterle said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBt7Q2EKbp4

Unfortunately, I don't understand a single word he says, he explains with details, I wish I can understand but I see how he uses the 2 layer of inferfacing, (there is another video shows how to press the layers together) , he constructs  the collar to make it curve nicely. I am so happy to have learned more and more. I have a delicious treat today.

I have another question, what is the plastic that the man uses in his video. It can be machine stitching through, it is interesting, and how he cuts it in a half round shape.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: peterle on April 09, 2019, 08:00:10 PM
No Posaune, I use the fusible only to make the non fusible stiffer.  How do you proceed then? Do You fuse the sewing allowances to the collar fabric? Or do You just sew it without ironing and cut away the SA of the fusible? And how do you iron the larger fusible to the smaller non fusible? Doesn´t it stick to the iron to the ironing board?

Using a glue stick is a good idea. Although I use this method always when doing cap visors, I never did it with collars. Entrenched habits hinders brain use...
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Dunc on April 09, 2019, 09:40:30 PM
Also maybe worth mentioning that I get my interfacing from Acorn Fabrics, who offer 5 different weights and finishes of woven non-fusible interfacing, from 125 gsm up to 280 gsm... That covers most requirements without needing to mess about combining multiple layers.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Greger on April 10, 2019, 09:46:57 AM
Why not padstitch two layers together? Then you can shape it.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 10, 2019, 05:50:06 PM
Dunc, I go online and search for Acorn Fabric, it sells interior design fabric .... Did I mess up something? there is not any interfacing at all!!! Would you please provide more information!
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: posaune on April 10, 2019, 09:00:40 PM
Peterle, the thin layer of interfacing acts more like a "interlining", prevents shrinking.  I use it as first layer then above the thick interfacing with no seam allowance.
When no iron interfaching ist prefered I baste the interfacing with big stitches on the collar. You must pretread very carefull both fabric and interfacing when doing it that way.
Some people glue the thin interface above the thick sew-in interface. And fasten it in this way. And they will not get those ugly ripples after washing when the ironing on was not correct done. The glue dots are in the seam allowances. Still have to try this.
Greger, I would not padstitch a shirt collar. Too much work and it will not take all the washing in my opinion.
lg
posaune
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Hendrick on April 11, 2019, 08:26:19 AM
Peterle, the thin layer of interfacing acts more like a "interlining", prevents shrinking.  I use it as first layer then above the thick interfacing with no seam allowance.
When no iron interfaching ist prefered I baste the interfacing with big stitches on the collar. You must pretread very carefull both fabric and interfacing when doing it that way.
Some people glue the thin interface above the thick sew-in interface. And fasten it in this way. And they will not get those ugly ripples after washing when the ironing on was not correct done. The glue dots are in the seam allowances. Still have to try this.
Greger, I would not padstitch a shirt collar. Too much work and it will not take all the washing in my opinion.
lg

Hi Posane,

In doing research on shirts I actually “reverse engineered” a lot of shirts from the 50’s, meaning I took them apart. Although they were mostly American industrial shirts, there was nice craftmanship involved... Most interlinings were “floating” and often the cuffs’ interlinings were cut to bias. Not the collars. Interestingly, the interlinings were stitched to the top collarvand cuffs at an 8th of an inch and the seam itself would, of course, be larger. Still, the thickness of the interlining will raise the edge of the collar and cuffs nicely. The interlining was a rather thick fluffy, canvas like material. Because of the thickness of these interlinings, the difference in neck-curves between the top- and undercollar was considerable, about a quarter of an inch. Shirts I surgically took apart were branded Towncraft, Brooks Brothers and McGregor from that period...
posaune
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Schneiderfrei on April 11, 2019, 09:39:49 AM
Mysewingpleasure,

Here is a link for the Acorn Accessories page:

https://www.acornfabrics.com/accessories/buttons-and-interlining

It's not listed under fabrics but accessories.

G
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 11, 2019, 03:53:56 PM
Schneiderfrei, thank you for the link. Which one should I take for the casual shirt, not as stiff as the ones in 70s and 80s, for young people?
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Schneiderfrei on April 12, 2019, 12:25:33 AM
Goodness, that is such a personal choice.

Casual shirt? - at one time I made my collars/cuffs without any interlining at all.  Very casual :)

Now I am using about 200 gm/mtr Mellosan (a french one). It's a pleasant weight.

When I run out of that I will likely go for Acorn, since it looks easy order.

G
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: theresa in tucson on April 12, 2019, 07:13:49 AM
My Sewing, if you read any of David P. Coffin's articles (you can find him on line) he recommends auditioning several types of interfacing in a cuff or a collar to get a desired effect.  If you are sewing for someone, ask them what they like that is already in the closet and why.  Then you can target a duplication.  Barring that do some snoop shopping and look at what's out there in ready to wear (RTW) or buy some samples from the thrift shops and tear them apart.  I've learned a lot from taking apart worn out garments.  In RTW menswear, except at the lowest price point, quality across the board in woven garments is pretty good.  Can't say the same for womens wear, though. 

For my "work shirts" I use Pam Erny's (Fashion Sewing Supply) "Shirt Crisp" light or medium in the collar and cuffs and I use a plain muslin cut on the bias for the front button stand (sewn on placket) that I heavily starch.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 12, 2019, 08:47:24 AM
Theresa, thank you for your suggestion, I will try these methods as I move along. I have borrowed David P. Coffin's books from local library last year. 

Another question, what kind of starch you suggest?
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Schneiderfrei on April 12, 2019, 09:30:51 AM
Starch is generally frowned upon in these pages, he he ;). It tends to expose the cloth to damage when it is so stiff and brittle.

Theresa in Tuscon is right, trying several is the best idea, as per David Coffin. I had assumed that you wanted to oder a minimum amount for economical reasons. 

As I have done you could order some mother of pearl buttons in the same order to cut down on shipping. Though as far as buttons go, these are exquisite, and not much more expensive:

http://prestigebuttons.com/mother-of-pearl-shirt-buttons

Graham
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 12, 2019, 02:10:29 PM
Schneiderfrei, thanks for the link to buy Mother of Pearl buttons. Yes, my son loves the pearl buttons and the buffalo horn suit buttons - good quality material! That is a good start. By the way, I would buy the set of swatch and explore which one is best match with the fabric that I am going to use.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: theresa in tucson on April 12, 2019, 02:28:54 PM
I just bought the grocery store brand of starch in a spray bottle (not aerosol) and I have some "Best Press" sizing I bought from Nancy's Notions a while back.  I have yet to break into the bottle of liquid starch but will when I run out of what I have.  I use the starch selectively, only on certain areas that I need crisp until they are sewn.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Hendrick on April 13, 2019, 08:06:45 AM
I umm, ordered a lifetimes worth supply of oldfashioned starch in powder. “Volendammertjes” brand starch costs about 15 euro per kilo. I mix it with boiled water and spray it on with a plant sprayer. It will probably last me way past my pension....
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: theresa in tucson on April 13, 2019, 11:50:23 AM
Hendrick, I am envious.  I remember helping my mother mix starch out of a box and then dunking the clothes into the batch before whirling them in the washer and hanging them on the line.  I went hunting for that same starch and could only find the aerosol cans or spray bottles before I finally found a bottle of the liquid starch concentrate at the Super WalMart.  I know you can make a usable starch from corn starch but it does not store well and one of the quilting boards recommends mixing an equal part of cheap vodka with an equal part water as a substitute for "Best Press".  It's called "Quilter's Moonshine".  I have yet to try it but may just for grins.  My personal use for cheap vodka is in pie dough to take the place of some of the ice water.  When the "Best Press" bottle runs dry I just may mix up a batch and see how it does.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Schneiderfrei on April 13, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Clearly I shall have to get some cheap vodka!
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 13, 2019, 05:48:58 PM
HaHa, I really enjoying being able to become a member and learning so many experts sharing their experience. I absolutely agree that different people around the world have their own traditional methods and cultural legends. We used to make starch out of corn starch or potato starch, my mom would suck my dad's shirt in, I cannot remember how she treated it afterwards. it would look shiny and stiff. I guess it would have made my dad look more "handsome" and "rich".....

I wonder Hendrick's starch can be used other than stiffing collar and cuffs.... or thickening soup??

Theresa, do not forget to share your result with the vodka-starch, i hope Schneiderfrei can patiently wait before he gets drunk with the cheap vodka!
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: jeffrey on April 14, 2019, 12:37:39 AM
Clothing starch can be made with a mixture of corn starch and borax. You just decide how heavily you would like to starch your clothes, add the correct amount of corn starch a tablespoon of borax and boil the mixture for approximately 10 minutes. You can easily find a recipe for homemade clothing starch online. Some recipes will suggest potato or rice starch but corn starch is easier to find,
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: theresa in tucson on April 14, 2019, 01:52:15 AM
The tricky part with the home made is that it cannot be stored for any length of time as it spoils, at least that is what the quilter's boards say. 

And being old enough to remember how it was done, I can answer how the starched garments were handled after they were dunked, hung out and dried.  My mother would take them off the line and sprinkle them with water.  You could buy a sprinkler head with a cork stopper that would fit in a glass soda pop bottle.  Then the clothes were rolled up tight, put into a plastic bag and set aside until the sprinkled water had permeated  the entire garment.  Then they were ironed.  Ironing days were the only time my mother ever watched the soap operas.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: posaune on April 14, 2019, 05:33:40 AM
My mother used  rice starch. You put it into water, heat and stirred till the starch was disbanded (word??). This potion you add into the last water when you rinsed  bed linen, tablecloths, blouses, shirts, Summer dresses - you name it. Today you use something to soften.
For the shirts you put on the starch mix at collar and cuff with a dapper before you ironed the shirt.  This starching was done that it would not take the dirt as quick as a lumpy fabric. You did not change as often as today.
Lg
posaune
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Greger on April 14, 2019, 12:52:55 PM
disbanded (word??) dissolve is probably the word you would choose.

Starch was used for the front of the shirt.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: jeffrey on April 15, 2019, 12:07:33 AM
The tricky part with the home made is that it cannot be stored for any length of time as it spoils, at least that is what the quilter's boards say. 

And being old enough to remember how it was done, I can answer how the starched garments were handled after they were dunked, hung out and dried.  My mother would take them off the line and sprinkle them with water.  You could buy a sprinkler head with a cork stopper that would fit in a glass soda pop bottle.  Then the clothes were rolled up tight, put into a plastic bag and set aside until the sprinkled water had permeated  the entire garment.  Then they were ironed.  Ironing days were the only time my mother ever watched the soap operas.

 I do prefer rice starch myself. I find that it dissolves more easily and evenly. The borax acts as a preservative. I make starch every 2 months and I do not have an issue with spoiling. I also use a plant mister to spray it on my fabric/clothing. The nice part about homemade starch is that you can start out with a very heavy solution which is good for heavy starched collars and also good for acting as a temporary bonding agent for non fusible interfacing. If you want a lighter solution mix in some more water and it can be used for misting.
  I'm not pushing homemade starch on anyone, it is just part of my routine that I tend to find satisfying and I thought it might be interesting to others too. I also like knowing what is in the starch. It is unscented unless I choose otherwise and the only preservative in it is natural.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: theresa in tucson on April 15, 2019, 02:37:34 AM
Thanks for the tip on using borax with the rice starch, Jeffrey.  I will need to look around for a source for the rice starch, probably in the health food grocery.  I think borax is readily available.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 15, 2019, 02:00:13 PM
Jeffrey, What is a rice starch? I would like to have a try, I think it makes more sense to just freshly make enough for every garment/shirt I am planning, because I won't make a lot of shirt at one time.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Schneiderfrei on April 15, 2019, 06:41:27 PM
I expect arrowroot and potato starch are also fine enough to make a good result.

The old commercial types would simply have been cheap to make.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: jeffrey on April 16, 2019, 12:22:38 AM
Rice starch is just like cornstarch. Only finer textured in my opinion, which makes it a little easier ti dissolve.
I have never tried arrowroot but I do know that potato starch works very well. When I was a wee child my grandmothers used to make small batches of starch with their left over potato remnants. (Am I dating myself? HA)
I am a huge proponent of adding the borax though. It does extend the starches lifespan.
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: Hendrick on April 16, 2019, 08:30:17 AM
I never used rice based starch. Just never had the opportunity to buy it... i got my starch from “Volendammertjes” an age old company in Holland. It is potato based and well solluble but once mixed it gets stiffer with time. Ibagree that adding borax is important because all starches tend to colour when they oxidise or get exposed to light ( uv ). Anyway, I am fully stocked for years and like Jeffrey I like to mist it on. I never make shirts but putting a bit of starch on cotton linings (waistband facings etc) makes it easy to pre iron before sewing....
Title: Re: Professional waistband of a men`s pants.
Post by: mysewingpleasure on April 16, 2019, 01:04:04 PM
Mmmm, I learned that there are pros and cons now,otherwise I will make a mess - baking without a recipe...disaster!
I think I will stick to the shore bought instant ones is a bit safer. Modern science makes life pretty good.
Thank you for sharing your experience, very much appreciated.