Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Apprentices => The Apprentice's Forum => Topic started by: mysewingpleasure on July 24, 2019, 04:32:33 PM

Title: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on July 24, 2019, 04:32:33 PM
Hi everyone, today I am sewing a convertible collar to a man's camp shirt, I would like to have your suggestion of how to do in a tailor's way. I did sew a convertible collar before, for lady's, of course, as a dressmaker/production sewer would.

But now I want to be a tailor, I want to build up my sewing skill to make fine garments, customer orders.

As I go searching some videos, I can easily find a few, but  I cannot find a tailor who sew with dedicate method, with a few tips... I know that there are a lot of older tailors, not in English, may be Russian, German, Italian.... they have videos that are very very good. please lick me some of them! I do not how to type in any other languages.

Your help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated, I intent to be a true apprentice to eventually an artisan, enhance the finishing workmanship of each individual piece.

I have a question about the interfacing of a man's convertible collar, should I interface the top collar or the under collar, when the fabric is fairly thick, it is a cotton in medium thickness. Do I have to cut the under collar a bit smaller to get the "fold ease"?
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Dunc on July 24, 2019, 06:37:32 PM
I would always interface the top collar, and I wouldn't worry about easing the under collar unless the fabric or interfacing is particularly thick. I doubt you'd be using anything that thick for a camp shirt.

If there is a difference between "a tailor's way", and "as a production sewer would", I'm not aware of it, but then I'm not a tailor... What I would say is that a professional shirtmaker wouldn't bother about cutting either the top collar or the under collar exactly to size before sewing it - they'd just cut rectangular pieces roughly the right size, sew the collar using the interfacing as a template, and then trim the excess before turning the collar. (Not that I'm a professional shirtmaker either...)
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on July 25, 2019, 06:34:30 PM
Dunc, thank you for your input, I did as you said, I interfaced the top collar, I did not make the under collar any bigger or smaller.

The cotton is medium thick, with designer's print pattern, so the wrong side is the white.

After sewing the top collar to the neckline, I fold a 1/16 more the SA of the under collar to make it a tiny smaller and top-stitch from the top collar side. on the top collar the 1/16 top-stitch is good, however, the stitch at the back had gone wild and slipped to the neckline instead of staying on the undercollar. :(

Is there any other procedure to do this kind of collar?

I have just finished, the collar has not been pressed and the chalk mark has not been removed.

(https://i.postimg.cc/WhcdWf7V/IMG-0164.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhcdWf7V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/z3gjH6BY/IMG-0165.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z3gjH6BY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsrKFw55/IMG-0166.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsrKFw55)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jnHP3VwW/IMG-0167.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnHP3VwW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JG35PXZT/IMG-0168.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JG35PXZT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4HQHbzqV/IMG-0169.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4HQHbzqV)


Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Dunc on July 25, 2019, 06:45:30 PM
I don't know of any other procedure.
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Hendrick on August 12, 2019, 07:19:40 AM
Hi, yes, there are several methods. The easiest is the bowling shirt collar, where you stitch your collar from between the body and folded facing. Of course you attach the under collar first. Your facing, however, would have to go all the way up to the shoulder seam. Make a small cut in the top collar that sits say 2 cms under the facing and press the rest of the neckseam value in. Now baste the whole neckline together with bias stitches, with the seam between your fingers to verify it sits properly, and press again. Note that the topcollar does need overlength, say 3 to 5 mm. When you fold over the collar most of that is consumed by the fact that the top collar needs that ease. When you press the undercollar onto the body, the rest of that value will sit about on mm lower than the collar seam. Now, whe you topstitch after carefully basting, you will Always catch the collar when stitching instead of the body...


Cheers, Hendrick

ps in old bowling shirts only the undercollars were fused so that the collar will have a better "roll"...  for this kind of sewing I sometimes check the  Diane Deziel YouTube channel, lots of tips...
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on August 12, 2019, 06:49:52 PM
Hendrick, thank you so much for your response! As you have mentioned, the facing has to go all the way up to the shoulder seam, I think that is what I have made the mistake, I only add 2 and half inches for the fold-in facing, it ended up there is not enough facing to form the lapel part to sit there comfortably, as you can see the photos, there should be as least 2 more inches to cover the lapel.

Although I did not have the facing up to the shoulder seam, I did the method as you suggested, I sewed the collar layered between the facing and the body until the end of the facing, cut a spit right there and remove the top collar seam allowance and continue to sew across the back until I reached the other facing, I cut the top collar again, flap it up and continue to sew the facing on top, collar layered between, and body panel at the bottom until the center front edge. Then I close the top collar seam allowance by top stitch on the top collar.

Would you please see closely to the photos and tell me if I have sewed them right and where I can improve.

Another question: should  I make a cut at the center front and cut the facing separately, or should I cut the fold in facing? I see most people cut the facing separately like a blazer's lapel.

Oh, I always watch Diane's videos, she is awesome, her sewing method is very precise and lots of helpful tips. however, she did not have a video about attaching the convertible collar to a "half facing" , but I do remember I had watched another video about finishing the "half-facing" collar with bias tape, somehow I did not do that for some reason I do not like it on a men's shirt.:) :P

Talking about Diane's sewing method, she always 1/16 inch under-stitches the collar and center front and lapel. Is it a "factory production/industrial" way? When I see the tailors, they never do that, do they? Tailors use baste every thing and press, that is. I am a little bit confused, When I learned to sew back then, I learned how to do "tailor" way, we baste, sew, press all the edges, not under stitching......:( :(

Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Schneiderfrei on August 12, 2019, 10:38:34 PM
I suspect tailors baste and press according to how much they get paid.   ;b
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Hendrick on August 13, 2019, 04:11:44 AM

Hi all,

So true Schneiderfrei! That is why I would limit that basting procedure to settling the collar seams to the body only… The 1/16th "under stitch" as you call it is indeed a production method to make sure the facing covers the lapel and the forepart covers the facing (note that the under stitch is done on the forepart and goes to the forepart for the fornt down. In dutch we call that "keersteek", could be translated as "turn stitch", because the seated seam allowance will always roll out the unseated part.  I have never seen that done on a shirt, on a jacket at least to me it look dubious at best. When you baste, lay your shirt flat on the table and close the folded collar all the way. Carefully pin down the pressed seams with pins pointing "down" i.e. vertical, starting from the matched middle. Now baste, thumb inside, middle finger holding the outside. It will give you a very pricise feeling of the position of your in and outside seams.

Here, that's how I do it...

Cheers, Hendrick

ps thanks for the reminder Schneiderfrei...
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on August 13, 2019, 02:17:19 PM
Oh, yes, I can imagine that tailors will work according to the pay, but what I am interested in, back in half a century ago, when rich people only wore the handmade, measure-to-order garments, at that age, the master were way too busy, so they hire - is this a right verb? some young men and taught them little by little to help them out in small tasks.  The way they were "trained" to do the men's wear, no matter what, that is what the apprentices had to do, followed exactly what their masters taught them to.

Even he is a slow and dedicate worker or a quick and messy one, they are to practice the procedures that turn into result. If they skip some basic process, they simply do not feel comfortable to do so, and they were not allowed to do so.

For example, modern sewers never, never, never use pins! NEVER. but I simply feel uncomfortable and confident enough to go without pins, pins, I mean a lot of pins in a single straight edge. especially the collars, cuffs ..... I am very slow worker, that is why I am "poor" :P Besides, I am slowly turning myself a tailor, I baste a lot now, and I baste as a tailor does - instead of straight stitch, I baste in a zig-zag stitch, it looks awesome, really, satisfying, I enjoy "becoming" a tailor ! :)

Oh, I need to repeat the question: do I cut the facing separately? How many inches at least it should be. What would you suggest me to improve according  the last one I made - the photos below. I am going to make another one exactly the same very soon, your advice is greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Schneiderfrei on August 13, 2019, 05:34:13 PM
That is an interesting observation about the use of pins.

I think using a lot of pins is the mark of a home sewer. I thought they were never much used in Tailoring.

My own basting is only hand done. Though, finding dedicated basting thread is nearly impossible.

Basting is much to be prefered to pins, because the pins distort the shape of the seam.

G
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Hendrick on August 13, 2019, 06:50:12 PM
True; pins and seams only go so-s0... But, in this case, the fabric looks a little nervous. When the pins are taken out after basting and settling the seams, sewing shouldn''t be a huge problem.
Regarding basting thread, I was Lucky enough to pick up a full box of it at the liquidation of a tailor's supply business a few years ago, together with "balls"of mercerised putting yarn, all made in France. Also, I find, the quality of machine yarn is not what it used to be...
(https://i.postimg.cc/SnnLCCnW/thread.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnnLCCnW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/s1fh578v/thread-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1fh578v)
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Dunc on August 13, 2019, 07:22:58 PM
It easy enough to find basting thread in the UK... B & B have 5 different types (https://www.theliningcompany.co.uk/threads/basting-thread/).
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Schneiderfrei on August 14, 2019, 09:51:34 AM
Unfortunately in Australia, supplies are scarce.

Hendrick, what is putting yarn?

G
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Hendrick on August 15, 2019, 05:01:48 AM

Hmm, sorry bad translation I guess. Thread for pick stitching was often called "putgaren" over here. The old tyoe came in strands,m later also on cones.

Cheers
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Schneiderfrei on August 15, 2019, 09:03:45 AM
No worries,

Maybe that could be top stitching thread.

G
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on August 15, 2019, 05:39:26 PM
Wow, the thread is lovely, I see all tailors use basting thread, I don't have any, I use the surging thread only. :$. Moveover, I went to B & B to explore, I must say I cannot afford the basting thread. Even they have a 10% discount for the month. :(

Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: posaune on August 16, 2019, 10:08:07 PM
well, that is the cheapest thread around
https://www.ebay.de/b/Heftgarn/28172/bn_7005371030
look here
lg
posaune
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on August 17, 2019, 01:35:05 PM
Posaune, thank you for your information about buying threads, however, there indicated that they may not be shipped to Canada. So I try to find in ebay.ca, there I find some of threads :
https://www.threadart.com/category/5/quilting-thread-single-colors-1000-meters
https://www.threadart.com/product/1703/cotton-thread-white-1000m

Quilting Thread - Single Colors - 1000 Meters
100% cotton thread is perfect for hand and machine quilting. Works well on both home sewing and quilting machines.
1000 meter / 1100 yard spools
Long staple, mercerized 100% cotton
50/3 ply

What is the difference between sewing thread and quilting thread? It was mercerized 100% cotton, why is it mercerized?
Is cotton thread better than polyester? For sewing garments, which one should I choose?
what is the difference between the basting thread and sewing thread?
I love to know more about choosing the right thread, thank you.
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Schneiderfrei on August 17, 2019, 02:19:15 PM
The poly thread(artificial) is strong and long lasting, but it melts quickly under an iron.

Cotton is ideal for cotton fabrics and is the same heat resistance as the cloth in that case, but it is not as long lasting.

Mercerised cotton is nice and shiny and smooth for sewing, but the mercerising may weaken the thread a little.

Unmercerised is a bit fluffy.
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on August 17, 2019, 02:50:02 PM
Schneiderfrei, thank you so much for the explanation, there are most common threads in the market is polyester, I cannot imagine how they are beneficial if it melts quickly but you described it as strong and long lasting. I would love to know more. Thanks again.
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: hutch-- on August 17, 2019, 03:54:24 PM
What I have found with polyester thread is that if you iron it too hot, the thread gets a shiny glaze to it. If strength is the criterion that matters to you then polyester is the right choice but if appearance is the important criterion, other lower strength thread types may be a better choice.
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Hendrick on August 17, 2019, 05:11:08 PM
Hi all,

Also, there's the shrinkage. Non mercerised cotton has a tendancy to shrink, that will result in puckered seams after washing (desired in jeans!). Mercerised cotton has far less shrinkage and will "de-twist" less easy while being pulled through a machine needle (you know the horror of that…). Jeans, btw these days are top stitched with corespun yarns. These have a strong poluester core and long staple cotton spun around that core. Beware of using cheap cotton handstitching yarn on your machine; it will produce huge amouns of lint and dust in the hook and race area.

Schneiderfrei, I don't know where it coms from but around here we usually call topstitching yarn "cordonnet", which sounds like a musical instrument used for folk dancing...

Cheers, Hendrick
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Schneiderfrei on August 17, 2019, 05:21:15 PM
That's great Hendrick,

I did not know that about the shrinkage and machine characteristics.

G
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: peterle on August 17, 2019, 08:06:18 PM
Basting thread is a very weak spun cotton yarn, it is a bit fluffy in appearence, made of short fibres and usually offwhite and unglazed. Itīs also a bit thicker than sewing thread.
Itīs advantage is: itīs cheap and rips easily so you can remove the basting stitches after use. Itīs rough surface helps to keep single stitches in the fabric so itīs the ideal thread for thread marking. It canīt be used in the machine.

Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: mysewingpleasure on August 18, 2019, 06:58:16 AM
I am so thankfully for all the answers you explained. Each of your answer gives me a great impact of knowledge, and each of you have different experience make a huge difference to a newly tailor in her/his sewing journey. There is a Chinese idiom: " learning from very young until very old, there is no bottom line"  Thanks to all of you.

Do you suggest that I use this thread for over-all sewing? It seems to me that the heavy duty one is having the benefits exactly Hendrick mentioned.

Cotton Quilting Thread - Aqua - 1000 Meters - 50 Wt.
https://www.threadart.com/product/1703/cotton-thread-white-1000m
Long staple, mercerized 100% cotton thread. 50/3ply. 1000M spools are available in 40 different shades.

There is another thread,

Heavy Duty Cotton Quilting Thread - 2500 Meters
https://www.threadart.com/category/6/heavy-duty-cotton-quilting-thread-2500-meters
Our popular cotton thread on large cones is even stronger than our regular cotton thread for use with quilting and sewing machines. Also excellent for serging.
large cones
40 weight/3 ply
Sealed in clear shrink wrap
Long staple, mercerized 100% cotton
Low lint

I wonder what is the 40/3ply  and 50/3ply the Heavy Duty one has 40/3ply, while the first one is 50/3ply. What do these 40 and 50 mean?
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Schneiderfrei on August 18, 2019, 11:48:30 AM
40 and lower are heavy. My friend uses them for light leather work.

60 is finer and I will use it for shirts but the local industrial store to me recommends 120 for shirts.

Core spun, described above is very strong smooth and durable, costs more.
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Hendrick on August 18, 2019, 06:35:29 PM
For "general purpose", I use Amann Seralon 60 from Mettler. It is strong, stretches slightly and looks beautiful. I only use 30's for topstitching and really heavy stuff. Personally, I think that very fine threads only look good with very small machine stiches (15 or more per inch). Mettler have a very informative wesite, btw...
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Dunc on August 18, 2019, 07:32:23 PM
I use Gütermann Mara 100 for most purposes. Can't say I've ever noticed any issues with ironing it...
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Hendrick on August 18, 2019, 11:01:17 PM
I know Mara is a very good thread, but I only ever find it on big cones here...
Title: Re: professional finish of a convertible collar
Post by: Dunc on August 19, 2019, 12:40:51 AM
It's available in either 1000m spools or 5000m cones, although if you're looking for a particular shade ( other than the common ones) you usually can't buy a single spool, but have to buy a box of 10. The consumer retail equivalent is the "Sew-All" range, which as far as I can tell is exactly the same stuff, just on different reels, in a more limited range of shades, and at a much higher price per metre. A 100m spool of Sew-All is Ģ1.33 (from William Gee), but a 5km cone of Mara 100 is only Ģ7.64.