Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Apprentices => Drafting, Fitting and Construction => Patternmaking Reference => Topic started by: Schneiderfrei on January 28, 2017, 11:12:02 PM

Title: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 28, 2017, 11:12:02 PM
Hi, here is a very interesting Overcoat draft from Der Zuschnitt Fuer die herren Schneiderei - 1951

Der Stutzer means "The Dandy" in German. Just the thing for B Cumberbatch to wear for Sherlock. 

The draft seams to be derived from drafts for the "Ulster"overcoat.  I have included a draft for the Aermel - arm from the same section.

The user is warned (Zu beachten) to ask the client first if it is to be worn over a jacket or only a pullover. Thus, the draft has measurements for either scenario.

I will make efforts to translate it sooner or later.

(https://s14.postimg.cc/yznh2y6yl/Abb_523_-_522.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/yznh2y6yl/)

(https://s14.postimg.cc/5hxx7a6j1/DZfur_HS001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5hxx7a6j1/)

The book was my Christmas present :)

Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: posaune on January 29, 2017, 01:55:23 AM
Hi Schneiderfrei,
What a nice present!
yep, to late. I gave the coat now to a Maßschneider. He is willing to do the button holes for me. I voted for the magnetic thingies. I lost -  I'm only the tailor.
To your draft: it would be nice if you add the calculations from page 12/3 otherwise in gent's tailoring you are lost and the included seam allowance.
Can you tell more about the edition 15 th or 17th?
lg
posaune
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: pfaff260 on January 29, 2017, 02:49:08 AM
It's from the 14 th edition. In 16 and 17 it's no longer called der Stutzer.
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 29, 2017, 12:20:26 PM
Yes, thank you Pfaff, it is indeed the 14th Ed.

Here are the Proportionsmasse - Proportional Measurements:

I would really love someone to tell me where to find the references to seam allowances.

And, since the Draft seems to be an abbreviated draft, do we need the initial Ulster draft to make sense of the Stutzer.

And . . Pfaff what is it called in the future books.

(https://s14.postimg.org/tzq0uyjbh/DZ12.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tzq0uyjbh/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/7ns81nznx/DZ13.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7ns81nznx/)

Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: posaune on January 29, 2017, 08:28:12 PM
Must be a chapter about "Naehte und Einschlaege beim Mueller System".
lg
posaune
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 29, 2017, 09:15:44 PM
I will hunt it down and produce same.

Many thanks
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: TTailor on January 30, 2017, 01:24:33 AM
I havent' cut an overcoat in quite a while, but I have two to make for a project. In the past I have used the method of increasing the base chest sizing and drafting the overcoat from those new bigger measurments.
I was looking at my edition Zuschnitt der Herrenkleidung (1950's?) and it uses the base chest measurment and increases the sizing in the proportions to draft. Rb for instance varied from 2/10 chest +3 for some styles to + 4.5cm for others. They seem enormous. Is that more to do with the styles of the late 1940's?
The peacoat above is not nearly cut as large as the example drafts i have.
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: posaune on January 30, 2017, 03:04:03 AM
Coats in the 1990 had about 8.4 cm ease at bust level, overcoats had 10 cm (Paletot) up to 15  cm (roomy the 80th) , waist coats maybe 4-5 cm - ease depends on style and fashion.
lg
posaune
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: TTailor on January 30, 2017, 03:19:44 AM
Schneiderfrei, do you have a draft for a double breasted Ulster style coat that you can post?
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 30, 2017, 09:42:17 AM
Yes Terri,

I will try to get on to it this evening.  School has returned and my time is less my own again. :)

Mind you my book is 1951. I will see what else I might have in a book from 2000.

G
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 30, 2017, 01:16:45 PM
Here is part of my promises:  I will provide an explanation re how the seams and inlays are treated, for those without German in a short time. But here is the correct page.

(https://s14.postimg.org/fs0c6km4t/DZfur_HS002.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fs0c6km4t/)
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: peterle on January 30, 2017, 09:30:04 PM
In later books it is called "kurze Überjoppe" = short overcoat. (BTW " Stutzer" just means "cropped". But the Dandies wore cropped body coats in the early 19th century so the word enlarged it´s meaning).

The text says:
"To be regarded: the tailor has to make clear with the customer, wether the jacket will be worn over a lounge coat or only over a sweater. The pattern calulations are meant for wearing it over the lounge coat. For the other version the normal lounge coat calculations provide sufficient ease."

Thank You for posting the Calculation of the proportional meausers. It´s more detailed than in my XVII edition (1965).
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: jruley on January 31, 2017, 01:41:07 AM

BTW " Stutzer" just means "cropped". But the Dandies wore cropped body coats in the early 19th century so the word enlarged it´s meaning.


Only German dandies, or was this a universal European fashion?  Can you be more specific (which decade)?  I thought dandies (as Americans used the term) wore all kinds of unconventional things, not just one specific fashion.  But maybe the usage is different - in American parlance "dandy" meant "overdressed" as opposed to "elegant".

I don't want to hijack this thread, but maybe you could respond in the costume section?
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: hutch-- on January 31, 2017, 02:25:39 AM
In old dictionaries the words "fop" and "dandy" were interchangeable.
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: peterle on January 31, 2017, 02:49:34 AM
Yes. In German it means fop.

But looking for an answer for Jim I learned the word Stutzer was at least used since 1648, so the explanation  of a cropped body coat of the 19th century, I read in a fashion lexicon can´t be right.
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: hutch-- on January 31, 2017, 02:58:56 AM
I am prone to being a barbarian in clothing taste but looking at some of the clothing design from the English Elizabethan era, some of it was far more practical than it may have looked. I have seen paintings of Sir Francis Drake and it looked like sensible garments for a ship's captain in terms of movement and action where the style of dress I associate with a fop is the type of thing you would associate with hangers on in a royal court. Not only English but the French court pre-revolution. I don't know enough about middle European royalty and custom but I would imagine it is not a lot different.
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: jruley on January 31, 2017, 04:07:34 AM
Getting back to the original subject, I have a copy of "Designing Men's and Young Men's Overcoats" by Harry Simons, editor of the Clothing Trade Journal, etc. published by Clothing Designer Co. in 1931.  Most of the coats are long styles, but it does have a section on "Mackinaws" which are about the same length as this draft.

If this is of interest to anyone please let me know.
Title: Re: Der Stutzer - 3/4 Length Overcoat 1951
Post by: Schneiderfrei on January 31, 2017, 10:43:07 AM
I hope that if I made any serious errors in the following translation some kind person can point them out and I will make the right changes.

For those not familiar with German, here is essentially what the summary at the bottom of the Seams and Inlays Page says:

Thus  — as indicated above — with all cut edges the seam of  ¾ cm width are already included with the following exceptions.

a) The middle (back) seams are almost invariably supplied with inlays — due to adjustments at the waist line and at the lower length and through the straight grained course of the seam from waist height down. — therefore the processing is substantially facilitated by marking out the finished seam.

b) the waist dart varies in its size, but the width of the front part to the pocket must but always be the same as the side dart, that is each enlarged section of the waist dart must be added to the side seam.  Therefore, processing of the waist dart is facilitated by a finished seam. (Also for the matching of fabric stripes)

c) The lower collar is placed open edged on the neck ring and pushed against it, so that no seam is lost; the drawn line can also be considered as a guide edge

d) the front edge necessarily continues below to the bottom length, this is already drawn as a finished length. Thus, no difficulties result when front edge is processed as a finished seam. 

These simple and logical seams and inlays cannot possibly lead to any errors and therefore are maintained in the same way for all drafts unless otherwise indicated.