Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Bespoke Professionals => The Coatmakers Forum => Topic started by: jruley on April 02, 2016, 02:55:11 PM

Title: Re: Do you 'bag' your coat lining?
Post by: jruley on April 02, 2016, 02:55:11 PM
Hi everyone. I would very much appreciate your opinions on the following:

When lining a coat, do you 'bag' the lining (e.g., or attach it to coat pieces during the process of construction (as described in Cabrera)?

I understand that the bagging method is favoured by RTW manufacturers. Is it disparaged by tailors? Is there any reason not to insert coat lining in this way? I'm currently lining a coat using Cabrera's method, but it's very time consuming and requires a huge amount of hand sewing. I'm planning to try the bag method in my next coat.

How do you all feel about this?

I don't have much experience with modern jackets, but I will offer some thoughts.

A lot of people don't realize it, but the lining of a coat has to be slightly larger than the shell in order to avoid pulling on it and causing wrinkles.  If you attach this larger lining as a bag and leave insufficient facing at the bottom edge of the coat, you run the risk of the bag hanging down and being visible when the coat is worn.  This is a very unsightly defect.

Also, if the lining bag is not attached to the internal structure of the coat, it can stick to the wearer's shirt and move independently from the shell.  This is another way to get wrinkles to show, and can even pull the lining out of the sleeves when you take the coat off.  I've had this happen with cheap RTW casual jackets and a trench coat with a detachable lining.

I have bagged jacket linings with good results.  But these were waist-length military uniform jackets for historical reenactment purposes, with hem facing that would keep the bottom edge of the lining from showing in wear.  I secured the lining to the shell at the scyes, and set the sleeve linings by hand.  This is not a secure as sewing all seams together but was sufficient.

I have tried bagging vests, but actually prefer to make the shell and lining as separate layers with shoulders joined, sew them together at bottom, scyes, and front edges; then sew the side seams once the rest is turned and pressed.  The reason is that fully bagging a vest requires all the corners to be matched precisely.  The setup is so tedious that I found I wasn't saving any time.

Cabrera's method is indeed time-consuming, but if you'll give it a try I think you'll find it rewards you with a superior quality product.  You can control exactly how the lining pieces lie with the shell and build a nice shape into the coat.  The lining will move with the coat, and preserve this shape better in wear.
Title: Re: Re: Do you 'bag' your coat lining?
Post by: hutch-- on April 02, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
Its going to depend very much on whether you expect to alter the jacket in the future or not. As you have mentioned its a RTW technique and if it is executed correctly it will give you a professional result but it will probably be no joy to modify in a few years time. Its really a choice between a lot more hand work if you want a modifiable jacket or use a RTW production technique that is a lot faster to make but much harder to modify.
Title: Re: Re: Do you 'bag' your coat lining?
Post by: posaune on April 02, 2016, 07:20:07 PM
The bagging is an excellent piece of engineering. The pattern is developed from the pattern of the coat. It is exact and prezise - and your sewing must be so too.  It looks good and clean. (The Threads example pattern is very simplified and I would not trust their sleeve lining example)
Every tailor does what works best for him. And to speed up work is every time a good idea.
I tried bagging and it was more work for me as my own method I worked out for myself over the years.
It contains machine sewing but also hand sewing. I can transfer the alterations form the garment quick to the lining. Lining and coat have a good connection, because I fasten the lining at different places to the coat and they work well together. But this is my method.

All I can say: Try it!
Title: Re: Re: Do you 'bag' your coat lining?
Post by: Henry Hall on April 02, 2016, 08:31:03 PM
I can't agree that bagging offers anything beneficial for low-volume tailoring work, especially quality work. Bagging makes it nearly impossible to properly anchor the lining anywhere else than the edges. It necessitates a finish at the bottom that leads to sagging over time. Every day I see men on bicycles wearing RTW coats where the lower foreparts are ballooning out as wind opens up the shell and lining. That's bagging for you.

All the extra effort of trying to be ultra precise is not a time saver and it's not like it's worth it for one-off coats anyway. A method devised for a run of 5000 coats makes sense, for saving on lining and speeding up that operation, but they are all the same coat. For low-volume work you're constantly making different things.
Title: Re: Re: Do you 'bag' your coat lining?
Post by: lepus on April 03, 2016, 02:19:37 AM
A variety of methods exists to attach lining to a jacket, ranging from completely open to bagged through the smallest opening possible.
An ordinary men's jacket usually has at least one inside pocket, in a tongue or in the lining. The relevant parts of that pocket must be attached to the "endoskeleton" of the garment to prevent sagging and getting out of shape. Similarly, one may want to attach parts of the seam allowances of the lining to those of the outer parts. Operations for which sufficient access is required; doing it all through the bagging opening seems very difficult. The sleeve lining is attached separately anyway, it needs to be anchored to the sleeve in the standard places.
Title: Re: Re: Do you 'bag' your coat lining?
Post by: Henry Hall on April 03, 2016, 02:58:53 AM
What Lepus said about the sleeve lining is easy to see in some coats where they've been bagged - sleeves and all - and the lining moves inside the sleeve. Sometimes I've found one or two tack stitches meant to hold it in place, but it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Re: Do you 'bag' your coat lining?
Post by: jruley on April 06, 2016, 01:59:22 AM
Yes, thanks for the input, guys. I'm finding Cabrera's method of inserting lining to be very heavy on the hand stitching. Which is fine - I didn't get into this hobby expecting to not do any hand stitching! But it's a lot of work and I became interested in alternatives. I might give it a go down the line, and will report back with findings. :)

There are things you can do to reduce the amount of hand work while still anchoring the facing and lining to the body.

You should be able to sew the lining-facing joint up at least as far as the inside pocket, and make the pocket before attaching the facing.  If your facing is cut to match the coat you can sew the whole length of this joint.  You can either cut a little extra material on the edge of the facing above the roll line, or set the facing edge back from the lapel edge ("underbasting the seam") to make room for the "turn of cloth" when you attach the facing.  If you've shaped your facing using "ironwork" this probably won't work as the facing has to be trimmed to final shape.

Sew the facing and front lining to the front edges as a unit.  Clip the corners and seams and press the seams open.  Turn the facings right sides out and press.

Now work your way from the front to the back.  Baste the facing edges down, then baste the facing/lining joint down with the lapel turned over as it will be in wear.  Do this over a pressing ham, or over your hand so the lapel curves properly.  Turn the lining back over the facing, and secure the joint to the canvas with a catch stitch. 

Continue from here as Cabrera says.