Bespoke Cutter And Tailor

Quote from: Greger on Today at 06:05:34 AMThe Modern Tailor Outfitter And Clothier III, pages 132 and 133. Chapter XIII

Thank you very much Greger.

Quote from: Schneiderfrei on July 07, 2025, 07:06:11 PM

Quote from: Greger on July 07, 2025, 05:34:10 PMThere are a few fitting answers for tall neck, short neck, stooped and erect stance missing.

Oh Greger, do you know where those aditional instructions might be found?

The Modern Tailor Outfitter And Clothier III, pages 132 and 133. Chapter XIII
The download copy I have is barely readable.
That chapter has pajamas, dressing gown and underwear.

Quote from: Sam Tyler on July 07, 2025, 11:22:44 PMI'm really looking for a complete system, not bits and bobs. That way when I know how to adjust one garment from the system I should know more how to adjust another garment in the same system.

Understood, I was after the same thing once.  Some things may carry over from garment to garment but it can't be reduced to a cookbook procedure.  Changes in style can affect the fit of a garment, so be prepared to do some tweaking on each new pattern - even if they all came from the same book.

My Mueller shirt draft is from the 2000's.

I would not like to post the draft up here because of copyright issues.

The draft is very 3D shaped to the bodice, and even has 3 different degrees of closenes to the figure. This is very different from the pre 1990's drafts which are more or less an enveloupe.

I really recommend Hemden Schnitttechnik. My shirts made from this draft look a lot more like modern shirts. In fact I would be totally unsurprised to find that Mueller provides drafts to manufacturing companies, especially those that do not pinch them without permission.

Quote from: TTailor on July 07, 2025, 11:20:25 PMMuller et sohn often sell individual patterns and drafts from the magazine or from their full books.
I would look there and consider metric pattern cutting for menswear. Its a beginner friendly book.

Thanks. I'll check it out, although it may be a bit before I can share some results here. Big storm here yesterday did some damage sw of town so I may have some work coming in.

Quote from: jruley on July 07, 2025, 11:04:18 PMBuying the latest edition of Rundschau probably just gets you the most contemporary style.  There should be some older Rundschau drafts available for free here on the forum that would be fine for a starting point (no, I haven't looked).

I'm really looking for a complete system, not bits and bobs. That way when I know how to adjust one garment from the system I should know more how to adjust another garment in the same system. I just want to know I'm not the only one on here using it.

Muller et sohn often sell individual patterns and drafts from the magazine or from their full books.
I would look there and consider metric pattern cutting for menswear. Its a beginner friendly book.

Quote from: Robb on July 07, 2025, 09:50:57 PMI noticed many of the patterns I've looked at had a slight curve inwards at that point for the hollow of the back. But I never thought of it to see it as another dart.

The CB 'dart' also helps to compensate for inadvertent ease added at the apex of the actual darts. When factoring-in darts we simply add a little width to the waistband, only to take it out again. There's no net gain/loss once the dart is made-up, the darts merely aid cloth to curve in two directions: vertically over the seat and laterally around the body. This is all very well, but after adding width for the darts the side seam needs to be redrawn from/to the next reference point down, which is the seat line. So technically the darts should extend down to this line too in order to fully take-in the extra width we added.

In the draft shown, the guide-line for drawing the darts does extend down to the seat line, but not the actual darts, which is normal. To take things down that far would look poor, aesthetically, and with such a slither of cloth towards its apex, the dart could be tricky to sew. We therefore terminate the apex early, meaning that we inadvertently add a tiny amount of extra width/ease below the apex: the full intake of the dart isn't realised. This can result in a lateral 'ripple' of cloth/ease around the apex line. It's often compensated for, or can be compensated for, by treating the CB as a dart: note that the apex of its 'dart' does extend down to the seat line.

With low rise trousers the problem is a lot more noticeable. The CB is usually drawn as a straight line and it's more difficult to incorporate a credible dart into the draft. The 'solution' to clean up the back if things look a little rippled, is to take in the waist a little, which results in tightness. However, in my experience it's often better to leave out the darts altogether. In fact I've done A-B comparisons and invariably the 'no-darts' versions are cleaner.

It's all very well people on you tube demonstration the principles of darts using card, but to state the obvious, cloth isn't card. Yes, those principles hold with coat makers, because the cloth is backed with canvas, making it relatively inflexible. Otherwise, cloth will actually bend in two directions, though obviously more subtly if curvature is more pronounced in one direction (say, vertically over the seat). Still, there's enough curvature laterally for darts to be omitted altogether with low-rise trousers (and only low rise: darts are required to shape the small of the back with higher-rise trousers).

Maybe I'm a heretic, but darts really don't do much in low-rise trousers (other than cause problems IME).

Edit: though I use a drafting system that allows for this. Conventional drafts will probably end up with a little more curvature of the side seam if darts are omitted. It's all swings and roundabouts.

Quote from: Sam Tyler on July 07, 2025, 02:26:23 PMGiven the shortcomings of any and every drafting system, are there enough here familiar with new Rundschau that have a good enough eye to help me through whatever issues I may encounter? $100-ish per book is pricey enough that I dont want to gamble with a great doorstop.

Buying the latest edition of Rundschau probably just gets you the most contemporary style.  There should be some older Rundschau drafts available for free here on the forum that would be fine for a starting point (no, I haven't looked).

FWIW here is my own struggle with shirt fitting from a "standard" draft a few years ago:
https://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php/topic,238.0.html

Quote from: Gerry on July 07, 2025, 06:12:41 PMEdit: Because you have a flatter backside, it's not as critical to incorporate this 'dart', I was merely making you aware that those points on the diagram are another place where an adjustment can be made.

I was sort of aware of it. I noticed many of the patterns I've looked at had a slight curve inwards at that point for the hollow of the back. But I never thought of it to see it as another dart. A revelation.

I appreciate the insights!