Author Topic: Ulster Drafts 1951  (Read 1361 times)

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2017, 03:43:08 PM »
It seems to me that in the case of the Proportional Measurements, all the "Amount" values are for a regular dinner suit and still require the Ulster ease to be added - except for the Length amount which is correct for the Ulster.

posaune

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2017, 09:15:55 PM »
You are right. You go from the calc. proportional values which are used for a coat - fashion style 1960.
In these values are included the s.a. + the ease. If you want an overcoat you have to add more ease. These are called Ulsterzugabe or Zugabe (Paletot, Mantel, Pelz, Raglan a.s.o.).
Par example: Take the Ad = 1/8 Bust +3.5 up to 4 for coat. For an overcoat you add to this Ad + 2.5 (slim Paletot style)  or 4 (Mantel)  or 5 ( ulster loose style).
lg
posaune

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2017, 09:50:44 PM »
Oh thank you posaune,

in the Stutzer draft they explain that quite carefully, but there was no explanation for this one.

Also, I am not completely certain about the function of the two kinds of coat.  When, for example, is a paletot to be used?

LG

G

posaune

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2017, 12:09:12 AM »
A Paletot ist a tighter coat with darts. He is more elegant, looks more like a long coat, the waist is more or less pronounced and the fabric is not so heavy- I would think city and evening . The Ulster is made from heavier fabric for winter and has a bigger collar and revers, more sportive.
lg
posaune

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2017, 02:10:23 AM »
Goodness, in hot old Adelaide I have never seen such things.  He he.

G

Greger

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2017, 07:16:33 AM »
A Paletot ist a tighter coat with darts. He is more elegant, looks more like a long coat, the waist is more or less pronounced and the fabric is not so heavy- I would think city and evening . The Ulster is made from heavier fabric for winter and has a bigger collar and revers, more sportive.
lg
posaune

Paletot, then, would be used as a top coat by Germans. Whereas, the British (I believe) say it has a certain cut, but not sure if cloth weight has anything to do with it. And over time some garments do evolve and the evolution can be be somewhat different from region to region.

Ahmed

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2017, 09:24:21 AM »
Thanks for the translation Schneiderfrei . I finally understand what seitenspitze means, I searched everywhere for its meaning but I just couldn't find one. I drafted the pattern by guessing it meant 'square up' but thankfully it still worked somehow.  ;D

I have a question about H3/B/U on the forepart, you wrote "from U in a right angle down to the waistline", but isn't U already on the waistline?

From my understanding I translated it as "Draw center front line; below U draw the line towards the hem at a right angle (perpendicular) to the waistline", because none of those lines are at a right angle to the waistline apart from U to L4.

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2017, 11:16:13 AM »
That is a good question: Your translation is correct.

U is definitely on the Tl/waistline and "zur" definitely is supposed to mean "to the".

So I think that is almost certainly a text error.

There are often errors in these drafts, sometimes I suspect they are put there on purpose to confuse non-professionals.  That one is probably just poor editing.

There one nagging memory of a title:

Von
Louis Bolk.

(Aus dem anatomischen Laboratorium zu Amsterdam.)

Where zu means at.

I wonder if it should have read:

H3/B/U vordere Mitte einzeichnen, von U im rechten Winkel zur untere Länge nach unten.

G



peterle

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2017, 09:25:52 PM »
H3/B/U translates: draw center front line. from U downwards right angled to the waist line. (means the center front is perpendicular to the waistline from U downwards).

This line is also the grainline for the pattern, very important for striped fabric.

Corrections for the sleeve:
The forepart is nicely cut out...

The paper pattern get´s pinched along a vertical line starting at the front of the pocket for about 1-1,5cm at the hem, wich is the same amount as L5-L6. Thus a small belly dart opens itself at the pocket line and the under arm dart opens as well, achieving the two seam allowances necessary. (wich is not right btw, because the SA´s are already included in the underarm dart).

Sleeve width:
armhole width (Ad) of the jacket   +10-10,5cm or
...

Crown height:
armhole width of the jacket  + 5,5 or
1/3 of the jackets scye circumference ( measured 3/4 cm inwards from the scye line and reduced for 4,5cm wich is the SA of the shoulder, the underarm dart and the side seam) +1,5 or
...

D/e/L shifted front seam: 3cm outwards from center front line (wich is D/e/L).
d-d1 cut out height 1,5cm, measure one seam allowance (0,75cm) inwards

D/e/L shifted front seam, 1,5 cm inwards from center front
...
Shifted back seam:(usually the back seam would end in point C, by shifting the upper part of the seam to the underside of the sleeve, it dissapears when worn).

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2017, 11:20:07 PM »
Subject Object preposition  Hmmm

Ha

lepus

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Re: Ulster Drafts 1951
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2017, 06:25:32 AM »
[...] Thus a small belly dart opens itself at the pocket line and the under arm dart opens as well, achieving the two seam allowances necessary. (wich is not right btw, because the SA´s are already included in the underarm dart).[...]
I beg to differ, I believe there is no seam allowance for the side dart included in the draft. My arguments:
  • The original tekst says so.
  • If there were seam allowances included, I would expect to see a compensatory addition to the front side seam. There isn't, the side seams of front and back are exactly congruent.
  • I've looked at several Rundschau Ulster overcoat drafts which are all based on the same principle that is used in this draft:
    Rb + Ad + Bb = ½ chest + 2 seam allowances + ease
    For a normal Ulster overcoat the ease is 13 - 14 cm. In this draft, which is designated as extra loose and wide, the ease is 14.9 cm. If you subtract the supposedly included seam allowances of the side dart, it leaves 13.4 cm at chest level, which can't be characterized as especially loose and wide.

I just wanted to add, that the modifications involving the pivoted side dart, also known as the Donlon wedge, may be unnecessary or unwanted in stooping, flat chested figures. Where the Donlon wedge in jackets is usually reserved for the more exuberantly bellied customers, its application is generally recommended in overcoats even for "normal" figures, to counteract the formation of flares in the front, resulting from posture, size or volume of clothes worn under the coat.