Author Topic: Developing the "Casual" Jacket  (Read 11488 times)

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2016, 04:33:32 AM »
Add your length below the armhole/above the waist and again below the waist to hem. There's no need to let it affect the armhole.

Length added/removed below the chest line will not affect the balance.  It will only move the hem line up or down.

What I think I might try next is:

- Letting out the back yoke seam 1/4"  (1/2" total added length).  This will hopefully bring the collar closer to the back neck, and the shoulder seam closer to the middle of the shoulder.  Of course, this assumes it will push the front forward and not the back down.

- Adding a second front wedge at the waist line.  This will give more length on the CF line and keep the front closer below the waist.

Henry Hall

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2016, 04:43:58 AM »
Of course it will correct the balance. The front will be longer.  The top doesn't need to be lengthened.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2016, 07:17:45 AM »
Of course it will correct the balance. The front will be longer.  The top doesn't need to be lengthened.

I guess we are tripping over the definition.  I don't view merely changing the overall length of front or back as altering the balance.  This is a matter of taste or style, not the fundamental shape and fit of the garment.

To me "balance" is the relative length of the front and back, expressed to some common level such as the chest line.  This affects the way the garment fits around the neck and shoulders.

I'm aware that different authors use different definitions.  So maybe I'm talking about the major vertical balance and you the minor?

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2016, 11:47:30 AM »
Here's some more work with the body.  This is the finished length desired, just enough to cover my trouser waistband.  This new toile has the front wedge and back waist nip from post #10; no other balance changes have been tried at this point.

Apart from the length, the main reason for this new toile was to check a method for drafting a pleated "bi-swing back" which will give additional range of motion to the arms.  Of course that won't be tested until sleeves are added:









Not bad, but it still wants to stand off the belly.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 11:28:27 PM by jruley »

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2016, 11:48:39 AM »
Now I have pinned out 1/2" at the side seams.  This helps the fit at tha waist, but it's still a little loose at CF hem:









jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2016, 11:49:55 AM »
And now I've pinned out peterle's belly dart.  This seems to do the job!









peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2016, 07:06:41 PM »
Pinning the sides seams increases the folds between front armhole and belly. Try to take out less at the side seam  and take a bit more at the belly dart.

But Iīm sure the front balance must get longer. in post 18 you can see the "shooting forward" of the fronts starts at the chest line. This indicates the front balance is too short. lengthening the balance will probably also help to get the center back neck point back to itīs intended spot. The hole neck and shoulder area seems to be rotated back/downwards.

The golf back looks nice.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2016, 11:37:23 PM »

Iīm sure the front balance must get longer. in post 18 you can see the "shooting forward" of the fronts starts at the chest line. This indicates the front balance is too short. lengthening the balance will probably also help to get the center back neck point back to itīs intended spot. The hole neck and shoulder area seems to be rotated back/downwards.


Lengthening the front balance should have a similar effect to shortening the back balance.  We tried that in post #8.  It pulled the collar further away from the back neck and rotated the neck/shoulder area further back.

A second wedge (above the chest line) might help.  But the easiest thing to try next is letting out the back yoke seam.

I will also try pinning out more at the belly, and less at the sides.


peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2016, 12:19:32 AM »

Iīm sure the front balance must get longer. in post 18 you can see the "shooting forward" of the fronts starts at the chest line. This indicates the front balance is too short. lengthening the balance will probably also help to get the center back neck point back to itīs intended spot. The hole neck and shoulder area seems to be rotated back/downwards.


Lengthening the front balance should have a similar effect to shortening the back balance.  We tried that in post #8.  It pulled the collar further away from the back neck and rotated the neck/shoulder area further back.


No. This would be true only when the armhole is deep enough. Shortening the back balance also makes the armhole smaller, lengthening the front makes it bigger. I think the sweater  sleeves pull and rotate the jacket because  they try to accomodate in a too small armhole. Shortening the back balance increased this issue. To lengthen he front balance, you could also let out the front yoke seam a bit.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2016, 12:55:17 AM »

I think the sweater  sleeves pull and rotate the jacket because  they try to accomodate in a too small armhole. Shortening the back balance increased this issue.


I don't think so - the scyes are pretty deep and I haven't noticed any pulling or binding.

I've adjusted the front and side darts, and I think it definitely looks better with more taken out at front as you suggested.  Have also let out the back yoke seam, and I think it helped a little.

You will have to wait awhile for photos, as everything is packed up for another project...
 

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2016, 12:57:37 AM »
nipping in the waist of  a jacket at the center back is not the best idea. it is not the right spot. back darts would be better. As you can see in the profil pics, the pinning causes the forming of an ugly "tail".


I see your point, but don't most suit jackets have a shaped back seam?  Is this just by convention if there is no benefit?  Or is it only a little, with most of the suppression taken from the side panel seams (essentially back darts)?

Of course the tail is no issue for my waist length jacket, since I cut it off :)...


peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2016, 01:25:55 AM »
nipping in the waist of  a jacket at the center back is not the best idea. it is not the right spot. back darts would be better. As you can see in the profil pics, the pinning causes the forming of an ugly "tail".


I see your point, but don't most suit jackets have a shaped back seam?  Is this just by convention if there is no benefit?  Or is it only a little, with most of the suppression taken from the side panel seams (essentially back darts)?

Of course the tail is no issue for my waist length jacket, since I cut it off :)...



A lounge coat pattern seems to have a shaped center back seam, but it hardly is. The back seam is just slanted wich is the result of a hidden wedge across the upper back to bring more length over the shoulder blades. When at all nipped for the waist itīs not more than 5mm at the waistline even in 70īs coats. waist nipping is mainly done in the rear side seams.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2016, 12:58:21 AM »
Here's how it looks now.  Changes described in post #24:









jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2016, 07:26:26 AM »
Back to the long version now, to try out peterle's suggestions of back and belly darts.  No changes in balance from post #10:













It definitely seems to shape up better.  Obviously the back darts should continue higher, and length is still needed at the CF hem. 

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2016, 09:44:50 AM »
Posaune, when you say to add length to the back, do you mean maybe, to add from the neck point?