Author Topic: Developing the "Casual" Jacket  (Read 8836 times)

jruley

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Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« on: August 11, 2016, 12:04:35 PM »
"Patternmaking for Menswear" by M&I Kim has a chapter on what the authors call "casual jackets".  These include styles like high school athletic jackets and windbreakers.  The suggested method is to grade up the shirt sloper (close-fitting or "classic fit" as desired) in size, and draft new sleeves to fit the enlarged armhole.  The recommended sleeve style has a higher crown than their shirt sleeve, but not as high as a suit jacket sleeve.

I applied this technique to my classic fit shirt sloper.  The result is shown here in a rather stiff cotton drill.  I've gone a couple of steps further and added a "convertible" collar, and pinned out a total of 3 inches at waist level at center back and the two side seams.

I'm thinking of working this up into a waist-length denim jacket for casual wear and outside work.  The sleeves will need either gussets or some kind of action back treatment to provide much freedom of movement.













Henry Hall

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2016, 09:06:33 PM »
Someone is going to mention the front length and the balance, so it might as well be me. The sleeves look very roomy, though I suppose a jacket like this would go over layers of clothing?

I see you have a photo backdrop, like the pro photographers!

Schneiderfrei

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2016, 09:34:17 PM »
The back drop is cool.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2016, 10:21:38 PM »
Someone is going to mention the front length and the balance, so it might as well be me. The sleeves look very roomy, though I suppose a jacket like this would go over layers of clothing?

Front length will obviously need to be adjusted.  The balance doesn't seem much different from my shirts, though I'm open to suggestions.

Yes, the sleeves are roomy enough to go over a shirt, not just the T-shirt worn in the photo.

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I see you have a photo backdrop, like the pro photographers!

Yes, I just got the backdrop and a lighting kit with reflective umbrellas.  Not just for this - I've been asked (drafted) to take some photos for a relative's anniversary celebration.  I thought I might as well get some experience with the setup beforehand...

posaune

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2016, 12:06:31 AM »
I would shorten the back. Open the sleeve seam a bit in back and pin out 1.5 cm straight across whole back at center back armhole. (The shoulder seam is now near the back head.  It should sit somewhere near the ears.) And lets have a new look.
lg
posaune
I suggest again: open the shoulder and let someone pin it.

peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2016, 01:07:30 AM »
The front is defenitely too short relatively to the back. The hem should be horizontal.

It would be wise to make the fittings wearing the garments underneath for what it is meant for. Like Posaune writes, it looks like your back balance is too long but maybe wearing a sweater underneath will change this impression.

An outer garment not only needs more width, it also needs a longer front and back balance, because it has to cover the garments worn underneath. Does your pattern instructions regard this aspect? ( the outer garment will stand away at back and front  hem otherwise)

The garment should also cover a shirt collar or a turtle neck, therefore the neckhole and collar have to be wider as well.

Does the center front touch your belly? It looks  more like standing away.


Will you have a  center back seam and a yoke in your jacket?

Maybe you should consider a belly dart. A less stiff fabric will collaps from the belly downwards and form ugly "bell creases" and cause a wavy hem. It is not allowed in shirt patterns, but there is no reason  to avoid one a jacket pattern.

Greger

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2016, 02:52:52 AM »
A suggestion would be to start with adding a wedge at front shoulder seam.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2016, 04:17:58 AM »
The front is defenitely too short relatively to the back. The hem should be horizontal.

It would be wise to make the fittings wearing the garments underneath for what it is meant for. Like Posaune writes, it looks like your back balance is too long but maybe wearing a sweater underneath will change this impression.

OK, I will try that and maybe pinning out some back length as posaune suggested.

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An outer garment not only needs more width, it also needs a longer front and back balance, because it has to cover the garments worn underneath. Does your pattern instructions regard this aspect?

Yes, this appears accounted for.  The chest line is extended 1/2" at the side seams and lowered 3/4".

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The garment should also cover a shirt collar or a turtle neck, therefore the neckhole and collar have to be wider as well.

Yes, the neckhole radius is increased 1/8", which makes the collar band about 3/4" longer.

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Does the center front touch your belly? It looks  more like standing away.

I think it did before I put the pin at CB; will have to verify.

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Will you have a  center back seam and a yoke in your jacket?

Yes.  I thought I would stick with the yoked style for this casual garment, and not return to shoulder darts until I am ready to make a suit jacket.

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Maybe you should consider a belly dart. A less stiff fabric will collaps from the belly downwards and form ugly "bell creases" and cause a wavy hem. It is not allowed in shirt patterns, but there is no reason  to avoid one a jacket pattern.

Do you mean like the "Donlon wedge" that is taken out of corpulent suit jacket and vest drafts at the side pocket?

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 09:22:47 AM »
Waist suppression at sides and back has been removed.

Here is 3/4" pinned out across the back at center back armhole.  I think it helped the balance a little, but it pulls the collar away from the back of the neck.  And the shoulder seam is even further back:













jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 09:28:01 AM »
So, the next idea is to add a wedge at the front chest line.  This tapers from 3/4" at CF to nothing at the side seams.  I think this works better:













jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 09:32:54 AM »
The next set is same as previous, except 1/2" is pinned out of the back seam at waist.

BTW all of these were taken with the jacket worn over a heavy sweater to account for other layers of clothing.













posaune

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2016, 08:11:29 PM »
I see.
The shoulder seam is now more 3-4 cm in back where it is supposed to sit (when pinning out in back).  Even with this wedge you must open the front 3 cm more to be level.  That is too much in my opinion.
Even with the wedge the shoulder seam is maybe 2 cm behind where it should sit - I would now try the other way and make the back longer. Maybe it is pulling the front up.
Sounds funny I know.
posaune



 

peterle

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2016, 09:00:53 PM »
 nipping in the waist of  a jacket at the center back is not the best idea. it is not the right spot. back darts would be better. As you can see in the profil pics, the pinning causes the forming of an ugly "tail".

the collar at the back seems to stand away in the later pics also, so I think itīs not caused  by the shorter back balance but by the sweater worn underneath.

The front yet seems to stand away. You could try to enlarge the wedge a bit more and /or can increase the front balance by adding a uniform strip of fabric across the chest. this should release the lower part of the front and allow it to move  a bit nearer to the body. I think the sweater underneath shows the back and front balance is not long enough. At the back the collar stands away and at the front there are some diagonal folds from the chest towards the side seams. These werenīt there without the sweater.

A Donlon wedge is a hidden manipulated dart, a bit too complicated to install. For the toile it would be easier to install the dart vertically just by pinning. But that should be done after the balance alterations.

Remember a jacket pattern doesnīt necessarily have to have a straight center front like a shirt.So a bit of forming can be done at the center front.

This post was written before Posaunes last one, but we seam to share the same opinion.

jruley

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2016, 10:44:11 PM »
Making both the the front AND back balances longer (which is what posaune seems to be recommending) would only drop the armscye level, not change the shape of the garment.  Correct?

I wonder if something else is going on.  Way back in the sloper development, we made the back wider and front narrower, but did not change the location of the side seam.  As a result it is not quite in the center of the armhole.  The shoulder seam end is in the same plane as the side seam, so this has pulled the shoulder seam back as well. 

Seams in principle can be located anywhere, but the armhole and sleeve drafts in particular assume that the side seam and shoulder seam will be in the middle of the scye.  If this is not the case is it throwing things off?  The front armhole length is greater than the back; the book they should be equal or the back greater.

I'm wondering if I should relocate these seams before making more balance adjustments?

Henry Hall

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Re: Developing the "Casual" Jacket
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2016, 01:04:25 AM »
Add your length below the armhole/above the waist and again below the waist to hem. There's no need to let it affect the armhole.