Author Topic: A Close-Fitting Sloper  (Read 22906 times)

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2016, 10:07:23 PM »
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What is the calculation for the front neck depth?

Same as back neck width, plus 1/4".  Which works out to 1/12 chest plus 1/2".

My measured neck circumference is 15-1/2".


posaune

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2016, 11:12:11 PM »
Jim, if you have 15,5 " neck that is in metric a 39.5 cm neck and this goes with a bust something about 96. So you will get a 8.3 cm back neck. With the formula: neck/5 -0.5   or neck/6 (which I use in my shirt drafts) you'll get about 7.4 cm or 6.6 cm. (I think it is not good to use bust for neck hole calculations)
When you use a smaller neck size the shoulder point will move to the center but the back width and front width will stay the same. This is why you can't just sew the back smaller.
And if it is smaller it will not be so deep in front.
lg
posaune

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2016, 12:13:36 AM »
With the consensus that more room was needed over the shoulder blades I applied Posaune's suggested alteration to the back.  No change has been made to the front.  Seam allowance has been added to the collar seam of the new back; the seam location is the line of black stitching.

Here is the new back pattern:



And here are the images.  I will say this feels more comfortable:













jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2016, 12:15:58 AM »
Jim, if you have 15,5 " neck that is in metric a 39.5 cm neck and this goes with a bust something about 96. So you will get a 8.3 cm back neck. With the formula: neck/5 -0.5   or neck/6 (which I use in my shirt drafts) you'll get about 7.4 cm or 6.6 cm. (I think it is not good to use bust for neck hole calculations)
When you use a smaller neck size the shoulder point will move to the center but the back width and front width will stay the same. This is why you can't just sew the back smaller.
And if it is smaller it will not be so deep in front.
lg
posaune


Thanks posaune.

Does your calculation include seam allowance?  If so, how much?


jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2016, 12:56:04 AM »
Given that the neckhole needs to be smaller, I'm having trouble understanding where to take out the difference without spoiling something else.

If I take out of the back seam, that reduces the chest circumference.

If I slide the neck seam and shoulder seam horizontally toward the CB line, that reduces the shoulder width.

So, do I reduce the back neck size and increase the shoulder seam length by the same amount, leaving the total length the same?

Or does this involve taking out a wedge somewhere?

peterle

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2016, 02:17:13 AM »
You canīt take out the amount, you have to add fabric to make the neckhole smaller. Add a bit of fabric like sewing allowance.

The back looks much better now.
My observation is, that your right hip is shifted to the right. it pulls the hole back rightwards. Drawing a strictly vertical line through the CB neckpoint  on the pic shows, the back seam drifts to the right at least 1,5". Adding some width in the right sideseam (back and front) would allow the back seam falling vertical. Open the sideseam from the hem up to about a few inches under the armhole. you will see how much the seamlines gape at the hip.

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2016, 03:20:35 AM »
You canīt take out the amount, you have to add fabric to make the neckhole smaller. Add a bit of fabric like sewing allowance.
So the neckhole is in the right place, it just needs to be smaller in circumference so a collar will fit.  Is that right?

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The back looks much better now.

Do you think it's still a little too wide?  There are small vertical folds at the sleeve seam.  Maybe I should reduce the width at the middle of the back scye?

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My observation is, that your right hip is shifted to the right. it pulls the hole back rightwards. Drawing a strictly vertical line through the CB neckpoint  on the pic shows, the back seam drifts to the right at least 1,5". Adding some width in the right sideseam (back and front) would allow the back seam falling vertical. Open the sideseam from the hem up to about a few inches under the armhole. you will see how much the seamlines gape at the hip.

You are probably right, but for now I would like to keep the alterations symmetrical.   I would like to get the best fit possible and then correct for the dropped shoulder and crooked spine.

posaune

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2016, 06:06:37 AM »
If I take out of the back seam, that reduces the chest circumference.
Yes
If I slide the neck seam and shoulder seam horizontally toward the CB line, that reduces the shoulder width.

What measure is shoulder width? It is not used to draft the back. So you do the smaller neck hole draft the shoulder length and add  what is added in the draft: 1-1.5 cm to get the point D' (if I remember right)

So, do I reduce the back neck size and increase the shoulder seam length by the same amount, leaving the total length the same?
No. Your shoulder will be too long if you used shoulder length for drafting

Or does this involve taking out a wedge somewhere?
No. Be happy! This time no wedge
nighty
posaune
Ah I'm much behind, there are new pics.
Look at side view and look at waist line. See it rises in front and you see it clearly in the front pic. Your next alterations is the balance.
After this you will add fabric in front and take away in back. And then you have to do what Peterle wrote. You are nearly there.

peterle

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2016, 06:31:22 AM »
Neckhole: Yes, I think this is right. I think it was this, what posaune had in mind.

The back: I also think the back is a bit wide for a "close fitting sloper".  What concernes me most is the disparety in ease between front and back. The back is quite wide, the front is very tight at the chestline. Maybe the whole armhole could be shifted a bit backwards 0,5 - 0,75". (shift the armhole base towards the back and connect to the existing shoulder ends).

Concerning the drop shoulder. Iīm not 100%sure about it. In the new back pic your shoulders are equally in height. Not so in the front pic. Is it possible your spine isnīt bent like a shallow C but like a shallow S? In other words both of your shoulders are shifted to the left? When I draw a vertical line through the shoulder seam ends on your pics (perpendicular to the cabinets edge on the first back pic), the left line doesnīt touch the hip at all , the right line cuts the hip. This would mean the sacrum and the 7th vertebra donīt line up vertically. This "off center" situation has to be dealt with in the pattern.

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2016, 07:41:00 AM »
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What measure is shoulder width? It is not used to draft the back. So you do the smaller neck hole draft the shoulder length and add what is added in the draft: 1-1.5 cm to get the point D' (if I remember right)

Here's what I'm getting at:  The back draft fixes the narrowest part of scye (between the shoulder and chest lines) at distance E-I.  Transferred to the top line this is equal to A-J.  This distance (half of back interscye width) is what I meant by "shoulder width".

Back neck width is A-A'.  From A' you square up to B' for end of back neck seam.  From J you square down to C' and out to D' for shoulder tip.  So the shoulder seam length is B'-D'.

If I reduce the back neck width B' moves toward the CB line (and down).  So if the shoulder width remains the same, the shoulder seam length B'-D' will increase.  Or if I kept B'-D' the same, the shoulder width would be narrower.

If I follow peterle's advice the back shoulder will be narrower anyway:

Quote
The back is quite wide, the front is very tight at the chestline. Maybe the whole armhole could be shifted a bit backwards 0,5 - 0,75". (shift the armhole base towards the back and connect to the existing shoulder ends).
So back interscye (E-I) will be reduced, and front interscye (G-K) will be increased.

It remains to decide how much to reduce the back neck width.  Posaune's calculations have it 0.9 - 1.7 cm (3/8" - 5/8") too wide.  Should I measure how far the end of the seam lies from my neck, and make it touch?

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2016, 07:45:50 AM »
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Look at side view and look at waist line. See it rises in front and you see it clearly in the front pic. Your next alterations is the balance.
After this you will add fabric in front and take away in back.


Yes, I see what you're saying.  But how much to add and where?

Should I remove the sleeves, then pass the back down on the front until the lines are horizontal?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 09:33:54 AM by jruley »

jruley

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2016, 07:49:12 AM »

Concerning the drop shoulder. Iīm not 100%sure about it. In the new back pic your shoulders are equally in height. Not so in the front pic. Is it possible your spine isnīt bent like a shallow C but like a shallow S? In other words both of your shoulders are shifted to the left? When I draw a vertical line through the shoulder seam ends on your pics (perpendicular to the cabinets edge on the first back pic), the left line doesnīt touch the hip at all , the right line cuts the hip. This would mean the sacrum and the 7th vertebra donīt line up vertically. This "off center" situation has to be dealt with in the pattern.

I don't know.  I've never been examined by a chiropractor.  My wife and I have an exercise session scheduled tomorrow morning, so maybe I can ask our trainer if he thinks my spine is curved.


Schneiderfrei

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2016, 07:51:56 AM »
With such a complex bodice adjustment I think you should remove the sleeves.  It will make things much simpler.

I am also very curious how to adjust for such a spine shape.  I am sure peterle is correct.  I have noticed the same thing in the last set of photos.  Its coming out quite clear to me now.

G

TTailor

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2016, 08:45:16 AM »
So, here you are, the change you made in the back makes an improvement.
Don't get ahead of yourself by doing too many things at once.
Redraft the neck using an alternative formula. 1/6 chest is really more appropriate for jackets. So you could try 1/5 of you neck measurement instead.

Yes the across back calculation of 1/12 chest plus 1 1/2" controls the shoulder seam length.
But, The next  thing to do is figure out how much width you should have in the back.

So do you have an across back measurement of your body? Compare that number to what the draft gives you using their formula. Generally you will want half your measured cross back plus some ease. Since this is a close fitting shirt block, then half cross back plus maybe one inch? No more.
If you redraw the back of the draft narrower and keep the total circumference at the chest you are shifting the distribution of fabric by shifting the armhole laterally, giving more fabric at the front of the body where you need it.

So to recap, redraft using a better neck calculation, and a narrower back.

The next stage as Posaune says is balance. The front needs some more length and a little more width at the waist because the front of your waist sits forward of your chest by a small amount.

So on paper, i would slash horizontally across the pattern at the chest line and open up a wedge say 5/8 " deep at the cf.
Using the CF line from the neck to chest, redraw your CF line straight, which will add width from the chest all the way to the hem. I think Posaune had a diagram earlier showing this. This is your new CF line, and set it on the straight grain.

Thats it for now...

Greger

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Re: A Close-Fitting Sloper
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2016, 09:16:35 AM »
Didn't Jim say the floor is uneven?

There is something called the Blade measure. Which is rather handy. From center back to front of armhole.