Author Topic: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder  (Read 4065 times)

jruley

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2016, 11:19:58 PM »

Don't make shoulder padding based on modelling it on yourself though. First put the coat on a standard form and note how the rear scye looks, if there is less (or more) of a fold problem you can start to discover why. As seen on yourself, any shortness from the back neck to the level of the scye (under the arm) is going to give you gyp, and where blade prominence is evident it makes it worse. You need to see it on whoever would wear it before you plan anything.

Anyway you said this was a model coat. Be sure to note the figuration of the people you'll be making for.

That absolutely makes sense in ordinary circumstances; but I don't own or have access to a standard form.  And I haven't actually met the people who are interested in these yet.  Looking at their website I see a more or less average range of body types, so I figured "regular" would be a safe starting point.

I just want a sample to take to an initial meeting, to show them what I can make.  Since I'm the only available model, it should look decent on me; but not so closely fitted that someone else couldn't use it.

Perhaps I should have started this discussion in the RTW forum, but this is the only area identified for coat making topics.   

hutch--

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2016, 05:08:26 AM »
Jim,

This location is fine, the RTW area is not up and going yet and you are hardly going into offshore mass production. From what you have explained of the requirements, the design has a lot of tolerance and it does not have to be close fitting which probably reduces the range you have to cater for. I would imagine that you will still have to deal with size variations in height girth and arm length but with what you have explained, it may be closer to the old army view of clothing than Saville Row close fitting business jackets.

I like the plain austere design and I imagine it will well suit a conservative religious group. I did have another comment from all of the photos you posted, the bottom edge of the coat appears to spread slightly, almost bell shaped and a slight necking of the bottom 4 inches or so would probably improve the straightness of the appearance and give you a little more tolerance in terms of the final result.
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jruley

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2016, 07:58:29 AM »

I like the plain austere design and I imagine it will well suit a conservative religious group. I did have another comment from all of the photos you posted, the bottom edge of the coat appears to spread slightly, almost bell shaped and a slight necking of the bottom 4 inches or so would probably improve the straightness of the appearance and give you a little more tolerance in terms of the final result.

That's an interesting thought, but particularly if it stays ventless I think I should leave some room in case someone has a prominent seat.  If they want it straighter maybe I'll let out the seams at waist level, or do some of that combined with a more tapered bottom.

Henry Hall

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2016, 08:39:01 AM »
In my opinion the 1960s sports jacket, with its shaping, was probably not the best starting model for creating a looser fitting style. There are other drafts, for other types of garments that would suit this style better. Perhaps something from the Regal Garment Cutter (a.k.a. American Garment Cutter) would be better? They're old (1914 no less) and probably trickier to make up, but they do have the 'sack' coat silhouette.

TTailor

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2016, 09:30:02 AM »
In my opinion the 1960s sports jacket, with its shaping, was probably not the best starting model for creating a looser fitting style. There are other drafts, for other types of garments that would suit this style better. Perhaps something from the Regal Garment Cutter (a.k.a. American Garment Cutter) would be better? They're old (1914 no less) and probably trickier to make up, but they do have the 'sack' coat silhouette.
I disagree about using a draft as old as 1914.
Their draft and fit is not quite as adaptable in my opinion. There was a lot of manipulation of fabrics to make them work and that really isn't practical with most of the fabrics commonly available. (Yes one could order some $100/m 12 oz wool, but I doubt the clients are wanting to invest that kind of money, though I could be wrong there).
Jruley doesn't tell us if he is trying to construct multiples in standerd sizes, which does make a difference in approach.

Henry Hall

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2016, 10:03:10 AM »
No doubt you're right. I did remark that they were old and thus tricky, but I can't think of any more modern draft that has the silhouette of the straighter sack-type coat Jruley is looking to make.

Having looked at that source T&C sports jacket draft again, it's not all that suppressed really. The under-arm dart could have been left alone and just the front dart left out.

hutch--

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2016, 10:15:31 AM »
 :)
Quote
That's an interesting thought, but particularly if it stays ventless I think I should leave some room in case someone has a prominent seat.  If they want it straighter maybe I'll let out the seams at waist level, or do some of that combined with a more tapered bottom.
I think Jim is on the right track here, slightly letting the waistline out a little will straighten the jacket and perhaps a split at the back will make it easier to sit in. If the shoulder slope and back width can be corrected I think Jim is on his way to a successful design that can be scaled up and down to suit a number of different sized people.
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tombennett

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2016, 10:21:05 AM »
I wonder if this is of any use. Cutters Practical Guide 19th ed.


jruley

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2016, 12:35:20 PM »
I made a couple of shoulder pads using the directions in Roberto Cabrera's book, then installed them.  Here's what the result looks like:











[IMGhttp://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/ruleyjm/l_front_sp_zpssnrkzux0.jpg]http://[/img]





It seems to have helped, especially on the left side; but the back is clearly too wide for me.

jruley

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Re: Vertical Folds at Back Shoulder
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2016, 01:06:24 PM »
Thanks Henry, TTailor and tombennett for sharing your thoughts on patterns.  This is actually the third pattern I've considered, though it's the first to make it to the sample stage.

The first pattern came from a supplier that caters to Amish communities (similar but not the same as the potential customers).  Intended for home sewing, it was extremely squarish, with even wider shoulders and scyes about two inches too deep.  What they are wearing today amounts to a classic modern style RTW jacket with a Mandarin collar.  I thought I could do better and this would probably be too "Grandma Moses" for them.  Availability of these patterns is also sporadic, so I preferred to provide my own.

Having some experience with F. T. Croonborg's 1907 "Blue Book of Men's Tailoring" I next drafted up his "Policeman's Blouse", which is a sack coat body with a standing collar.  The resulting mockup fit me fairly well, but has the opposite issues:  very close fitting and with a high and tight armscye.  Based on what they are now wearing, I think they want something easier fitting, and I am hoping to be able to work with standard sizes.

The 1970 drafts were available on the old Forum before it went down and seemed to be well thought of by some of the regulars.  I selected the sports jacket as the less shaped of the two.  I did the pattern draft, made a mockup, and thought I had found a happy medium; somewhat shaped but not tight, with an "easy" scye but not too deep.  I didn't realize there was an issue with the back until after making the sample and taking photos.

The size chart (supposedly also from the 1970 T&C and taken from the old Forum) shows a half back measure of 8-3/4 inches for a 42 regular.  I applied this on top of the 1/2" for "drape" allowed in the pattern, plus two seam allowances of course.  Is this in the ballpark or much wider than I should have done?