Author Topic: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.  (Read 481 times)

TTailor

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The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« on: October 07, 2017, 11:51:01 PM »
Here we go!
I have taken on a project that involves making a few costumes for an opera. One of the singers is quite a big guy, but I have not personally measured him, nor will I get a chance to fit him.
I have measurements from one source, a random photo from another and I have a uniform jacket in hand that he wore recently, and I found online photos of him wearing it.
This is my starting point.

How I would love it if management was more proactive about getting proper measurements and photos to aid in costume construction! I dont know why they aren't.
It could be because they dont have to be in my head, maybe assume that making the pattern is easy, and dont realize the process, they just see the end result?

Who knows.

I will attempt to post my process here, just to make your head spin too!




posaune

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 12:27:18 AM »
Terri,
I'm looking forward!
lg
posaune

tom bennett

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 02:24:55 AM »
I hope I am not talking out of turn and Rory doesn't mind me recounting one of his anecdotes: While I was over in Ireland learning the craft of coat making with my "Young Master" Rory, he told a tale of a chap handing him the off-cuts of a pattern and was asked, with some seriousness, if he would be able to reconstruct the original pattern from all the small and large cuttings.  Well I almost fell of my perch with laughter.  All the best Terri. :)

posaune

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 05:10:03 AM »
Oh tombennett, I think it is not as impossible as it sounds. She has some measurements. She has a jacket and she has some photos from him wearing that jacket. So with mathematical calculations and measureing the photos and recalculting and her big experience in PatternMaking I'm sure Terri will be spot on. I'm very curious to see and read about her method. I think I will learn a lot.
lg
posaune

tom bennett

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 06:07:40 AM »
Oh posaune, I was merely recounting a story. I know Terri will be able to make the ordered garment, no offence was meant

spookietoo

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 01:37:52 PM »
Oh, Terri, designing and working through someone else's eyes can be very trying! Building design jobs are difficult that way, and my friend, a civil engineer, has had to deal with other licensed engineers that have seen nothing wrong with storm drains being located 3' from the edge of the road bed, deciding they were "close enough".  I can't even imagine trying to fit a garment.

Any possibility the company has a wardrobe person that knows one end of a measuring tape from the other and can take a decent photo with a smart phone?  I like to try to work with the same person repeatedly when I can. Even knowing that an opinion of someone is "questionable" can be more informative that depending on various opinions - with no consistency involved.

Good luck!

TTailor

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 10:43:29 PM »
Well, my colleague Evan will be making something for him too. So at some point we will be putting our heads together.
Opera singers are usually travelling and sometimes arrive quite late in the process. often the wardrobe must prep the garments according to whatever measurements they have, and then fit and finish in a very short time.
If you are the person doing the fitting in these situations you are usually scrambling to get all that you need done in about 45 minutes, and that usually includes other people coming in to check the fit of boots, hats and accessories. At least at that point you have what you need to finish, but not more info for the next cutter down the line.
Sometimes getting someone in just for a measurement session is logistically a problem. I always try to get a tape measure around the person at least to confirm chest waist and hip and a balance measurment in a fitting to note on the measurement sheet, but we get pushed for time.
This time, I wont get a fitting.
I want to minimize fitting issues for the person who will be faced with getting everything on stage.


TTailor

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 08:46:43 AM »
So, First things first.
i have a measurement sheet that has measurements taken in 2014, and a few checked again in Nov 2016.
I have a jacket worn somewhat recently, and I found photos on the internet of the singer wearing the jacket.

I have to make doublets for him. A different fit than a suit jacket, and more complicated stylistically, but I will have to do a little drawing for you to see what I need to do.

I usually transcribe the measurements to a separate page, changing them to metric because I draft in metric. But I am an equal opportunity user of systems, so sometimes I revert to imperial. Bear with me. My concerns/notes are in italic.

Height 180/90/45
neck 53
chest 140/70/35
waist 122/61/30.5
hip 122/61/30.5
nape to waist back 51.5   proportional for his height is 45 so we have a difference of 6.5cm
throat to waist front 49 hmm?
across back 51 proportional for his chest 53, and the jacket he wore is 55
nape to cf waist 73.5 the jacket was worn with a belt, and I think this is marginally too long looking at the jacket on a stand
nape to shoulder 25 seems too short a measure to me, and the jacket measures 29.5 there
working scale 62

The jacket measures just 140 cm around chest as it is. Hmmm
The front belt hook makes the waist profile look very slanted. A drop of an inch (2.5cm) below the horizontal waist construction line in regular sizes gives a nice line visually. For a guy this size, I think an inch and a half (4cm) is good.
I have a nape to floor and a throat to floor measurement so I can pad up a stand and try to use this information and double check the waist line amongst other things.

photos to come, I have to get them onto my computer. I have a rough half scale thinking draft and some pics of the jacket.

TTailor

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2017, 11:50:54 AM »




Here is a link to the Flickr Album.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm6Egfyq


TTailor

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2017, 12:01:58 PM »
I know there are issues with the fit of this jacket, but lets not be too harsh. I don't know who made it, but I bet they were doing their best under less than ideal circumstances.
I am open to hearing your opinions though.

Obviously the hem is too long in the front, and there is a surplus of fabric at the side hip. The profile picture is good for assessing his back shape. also it looks as though the body is too tight over the belly/upper midriff area.
There are issues with the armhole/sleeve fit.
Trousers look pretty good.

Thats all for tonight. I need a cup of tea.

Schneiderfrei

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 12:08:05 PM »
I am really enjoying your efforts here Terri, many thanks.

posaune

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2017, 06:17:08 AM »
I just write down what I see:
he being a singer I think his chest is wide: 140 to 122 waist and a 122 hip. You see a wide neck too. (My husband plays the trombone (hence my name) and his chest is quite big (but his belly too)), normal porportion do not work here.  His Back is a bit rounded but starting already at the center of shoulderblades. So he needs maybe more back width too - but, no, I think not with this jacket. The jacket has to much width under the waist girth in back and the belt is not doing anything good. If you look at his side posture his bum is behind the shoulder blades (not much) and he thrust the hips a bit in front. Means belly draft. You need to take out width at the back from the side panel.  What you take out you need to add this to the front (belly).
The biggest issue are the sleeves. They are too tight and I do not think they are positioned in the right place. The belt pushes the back up, it seems too short and the armholes are maybe not deep enough. But a singer may need short armholes,  he gesticulates much, so you have to cut the sleeve wider and shorter.
The trousers are a bit longer over the back side.
lg
posaune

TTailor

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2017, 08:50:42 AM »
Posaune, thank you for your observations!
I agree with you, especially for belly and about the sleeves.
It is interesting to hear about what someone else sees.

I asked to use a stand at work and went in today, and padded it up to be closer to what I imagine his shape to be.


hutch--

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2017, 02:09:24 PM »
This sounds like a case of "Difficult is managed normally but impossible takes longer."  ;)
The magnificent tools of the professional tailor
http://www.movsd.com/tailors_shears/  ;) ;D

TTailor

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Re: The challenge- drafting for people you have not measured.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 11:08:04 AM »
i wrote up a long post and then I lost it during some ipad trickery! arghhh!